[hosh]

I think that depends upon the dream space you find yourself in. If it is an internal dream space for yourself, you tend to have more control (if you do have control).

However, I've been in many shared spaces that have varying rules on how much things can be changed. Many of them are what I describe as "sim" spaces. There are also spaces where it is procedurally-generated -- for example, deliberately taking a path you know has not been used, and the whole space pauses, as things are procedurally generated to create that new area on the fly.

Finally, it's a two way street. Connection to a space has as much to do with how your consciousness is attuned to that space; trying to change the environment too much is as much as your consciousness shifting out of alignment with that space, and disconnecting as it is the space resisting changes.

As an example, I remember one interesting experience where I was talking to someone. Three people entered the space, with their own (subconcious) idea of things, which created changes in the environment to fit their consciousness state. It's similar to how Will Wight described things in his Traveler's Gate series, when someone from one realm goes into another, and that other realm starts morphing towards the first realm. I don't think those three knew what they were doing, and it was kinda rude.

[fsiefken]

Hi hosh, you mention shared dream space, how do you know for certain the others are real dreamers and not just imagined, anticipated or dreamed ones by your own consciousness?

If they were real this would imply solid proof of ESP - which I think would be all over the news, or at least mentioned in the Noema magazine article by Claire Evans. Is there a subculture of dream parapsychologists publishing this in underground channels I am not aware of? Are these hypothetical dream parapsychologists using scientific rigor and peer review I wonder? Or do people 'just know'?

You mention "procedurally generated" and the dream "sim" space pausing because of computation, I am working in IT and can't square that with with a dream space taking place in the mind. The mind doesn't operate like a computer or has procedures that take so much time that the dream space is paused. My dreams do not pause. How do you know the pause itself is not your imagination of an imagined procedurally generated dream scene? The idea of perceived reality as computational simulation was popularized by the The Matrix, that this is a popular metaphor doesn't mean shared lucid dreaming are computed somehow.

Because of these questions I wondered if this comment is LLM generated or a kind of fantasy or metaphor. After reading your profile this doesn't seem to be the case, you are serious and generally knowledgable about matters of consciousness. I am puzzled.

[hosh]

Sometimes I see threads here on HN related to the occult or the very weird spaces psychonauts explore and I forget the audience I am talking to. I generally have to compartmentalize; this is the kind of stuff I talk to in other communities, forums, and private Discord channels, not here. I would have thought other lucid dreamers here would have encountered this kind of stuff, but I guess not. What I said here is relatively tame compared to the weirdness you can get diving into this.

Put it this way, permaculture is weird for all but a minority of folks here, even if it stays within the bounds of known science. This stuff with consciousness is the kind of hill people die on.

I don’t know if you really want to jump into this rabbit hole. There are many entrances, and given the reception, I am reluctant to speak further. But if you are really curious, Hank Wesselman’s work can be a good starting point. One of his books specifically talks about “reenchantment”, in reference to the disenchantment of the scientific inquiries of the 19th century that lead us to our modern worldview.

[fsiefken]

Thanks for the pointer hosh, as a psychonaut, vajrayana practitioner reading books from for example bernardo kastrup, zoe7's void books, robert anton wilson, dean radin and robert bruce I can relate. I've had various interesting experiences and entertained a variety of 'reality tunnels' and am for sure in favor of 're-enchantment'. Still the comment didn't compute for me, I understand and respect your reluctance!

[codeflo]

Serious question, do you need help?

[hosh]

Why would you think I need help?