[medo-bear]

I think no party to the war has a chance to really win. The biggest tragedy though is that whatever happens and regardless if anyone wins militarily, for many years (decades) after the war people living in Ukraine will not feel like they won anything. You can be sure of that

[simion314]

Sure, but you think surrendering and becoming the next Chechnya is something Ukrainians should offer their children?

[medo-bear]

Men from both countries are going to great lengths to avoid conscription, as they should! Sending people to war against their will is pure evil.

[riehwvfbk]

Chechnya is/was very much a part of Russia and was not contested territory. Yes, it was acquired through conquest, a long time ago. If you are going to bring that up, then USA should give California back to Mexico.

[simion314]

I am concerned about people not lands or what empire has right to what land. The people wanted freedom and Putin created some false flag operations to start a second war, today those people instead of having their children live in peace are forced to see them fighting for the criminal that killed their parents.

Only imperialists bring historical claims to the discussion, for people in civilized countries is not a good argument that you claim you conquered and genocided some lands sometimes in the past, all the empires have fallen except the Russian one and there will be a time when the opressed people should get their freedom.

So dear comrade if Californians want to fight for their independence from an opressor I will support the people aand not the imperialistic coward old man that would want to genocide them again.

[medo-bear]

> The people wanted freedom and Putin created some false flag operations to start a second war, today those people instead of having their children live in peace are forced to see them fighting for the criminal that killed their parents.

A lot of those people that fought for freedom in Chechnya later went on to do great things, such as join ISIS or become drug dealers in Austria.

> I am concerned about people not lands or what empire has right to what land.

I wonder, does the same right of self determination of nations apply to people wanting self determination in NATO-allied countries? To Ukraine? Or is there fine-print included in your concern?

[simion314]

>I wonder, does the same right of self determination of nations apply to people wanting self determination in NATO-allied countries? To Ukraine? Or is there fine-print included in your concern?

I personally am for self determination, my country though is for respecting the UN laws and borders, Ruzzia is a GIANT hypocrite , when it is in their favor they want to split countries and grab lands like in Ukraine , when others want to split like Kosovo or Checnya then they apply the reverse and for some reason Kremlin and some Ruzzians are very invested in what Moldova is doing and they want to ensure that their self determination is exactly what Kremlin desires.

[medo-bear]

> Ruzzia is a GIANT hypocrite

Actually when Western countries began recognizing the independence of Kosovo (independently of the UN) they warned that it will open up a pandora's box that will come back to bite them. But once again no one listened and kept studying Kremlinology. When Russia said that color revolutions on their borders are a concern no one listened and Nuland dealt free baked cookies in Kiev to Maidan protesters. These, by the way, turned out to be most expensive cookies in the world for Ukraine. Which is an important lesson: do not trust the US when it gives away things for free, even baked cookies

[thriftwy]

> next Chechnya

In the sense that Ukrainians then get to invade Kazakhstan around 2040 on behalf of Russia, and film Tik Tok videos about how nasty of fighters they are?

(This might as well happen)