[lukan]

Look, I am not in favor of (british) colonialism and the problems it created. I am also not in favor of what Hungary is doing, the only country in europe(apart from Vatican), that is activly pushing christianity as a state dogma. We europeans mostly left the abrahamtic religions as state religion behind us and most want to get rid, of what is left.

So I am also not happy for Hindu Nationalists pushing for India to implement Hinduism as a state dogma. Because that is the same principle to me: a strong power dictates life for everyone else below them. That always means ignoring the needs of minorities. And the way you consistently leave out all the non Hindu indians in your lectures about Indias great history, indicates that this will be their fate in a Hindu India. Ignored and forgotten and supressed. The same fate you lament for Hinduism. There you care, but you don't care, when it affects others.

[NoRagrets]

Sincere query: Why are you ‘not happy for Hindu Nationalists pushing for India to implement Hinduism as a state dogma’?

It’s not your religion. It doesn’t affect you. India is a democracy. It would involve an election.

Should there be foreign interference in a democratic nation’s elections and how the citizenry want to run their country ?

It’s very strange. Why is everyone bothered about India? Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. There are over 50 countries in the world that are Muslim and follow Muslim law. What are your thoughts on that?

India was invaded and then colonized by outsiders. First with guns and then trade and then by religious conversions. This is history. Many Indians don’t like that.

It has barely been 80 years since India was released from the clutches of 250 years of colonial rule. India has the right to define herself and find her own identity using the chosen democratic process.

I find it very strange that so many non Hindus of the world are so upset about a country of one billion Hindus wanting the remains of their splintered partitioned and battered country to remain Hindu in identity.

One billion Hindus. Thousands of years of civilizational history and people who embraced new abrahamic faith in the past thousand years after giving up their pagan roots want India to give up her roots.. for what? India has resisted the cultural and civilizational and religious assaults and that is only due to lthe tenacity of the unified Hindu identity and faith. It won’t be weakened.

Our ancestors did not fight and resist invasions and assault for us to give up on our civilisational inheritance and Hindus have a duty to honor those sacrifices and generational trauma by keeping Hinduism and Hindu homeland and Hindu identity intact for our future generations.

Many gave up and embraced new faiths. Our ancestors did not. Hindus exist today because our ancestors thought Hindu identity was worth protecting. And we will. For our descendants.

[lukan]

"Why is everyone bothered about India?"

Why do you think "everyone is bothered about India"?

India was the subtopic here, so we are discussing India. And specifically your thoughts about India.

"Saudi Arabia is a Muslim country. There are over 50 countries in the world that are Muslim and follow Muslim law. What are your thoughts on that?"

And my answer is pretty much the same. I am not in favor of any authorian nationalistic theocraties/monarchies. But if they are small and not aggressive, then it is not such a big deal, as "people can get away more easily".

Also, India has 1400 million people. Saudi Arabia has 30 million.

So Saudi Arabia is big and because of ther oil quite rich and powerful and yes, due to their system a constant problem and gets attention.

Still, India is waaay bigger. And "we" in "the west" are concerned, whether you will slip more into authorian religious nationalism, or if we share enough values to remain or become stronger partners against other authorian regimes (and yes, yes, "the west" is far from perfect and the freedom wars in iraq etc. is not something I supported, germany, where I am from, did not take part in that btw)

"Hindus exist today because our ancestors thought Hindu identity was worth protecting. And we will. For our descendants."

And you absolutely can. I have no problem with that. I am not anti Hindu. I was often singing Bhajans and will do so again.

But I do have a problem if you would supress other religions and ethnicities who also just want to protect their culture. That is my point. And maybe this is not at all what you want. But it very much sounds like it. At least implicit.

[NoRagrets]

>Why do you think "everyone is bothered about India"? India was the subtopic here, so we are discussing India. And specifically your thoughts about India.[…]

Perhaps you are mistaken. I was speaking about India and Hinduphobia. Everything else is the subtopic.

>And my answer is pretty much the same. I am not in favor of any authorian nationalistic theocraties/monarchies. [..]

But if they are small and not aggressive, then it is not such a big deal, as "people can get away more easily".[..]

How many wars have been fought in the past hundred years and how many in India?

>Still, India is waaay bigger. And "we" in "the west" are concerned, whether you will slip more into authorian religious nationalism, or if we share enough values to remain or become stronger partners against other authorian regimes (and yes, yes, "the west" is far from perfect and the freedom wars in iraq etc. [..]

Ahh.. so you contradict your first comment. Everyone IS bothered about India and you say it’s because of its size?

India has a democratically elected government. Asking that all the religions in a secular nation follow the same Uniform Civil Code is not ‘Religious nationalism’.

>And you absolutely can. I have no problem with that. I am not anti Hindu. I was often singing Bhajans and will do so again.

Why do you sing Bhajans if you are not Hindu. They are in praise of Hindu Gods. Bhajans are an expression of Bhakti and devotion to Hindu Gods. Singing something because of its musicality has nothing to do with how you relate to or understand a religious identity or affiliation.

>But I do have a problem if you would supress other religions and ethnicities who also just want to protect their culture.[..]

That is not possible in a democratic secular nation. India cannot claim to be secular if Muslims have their own personal law and Hindus have their own personal laws. And the courts are expected to treat them differently.

Regardless, none of this affects anyone on an international level as in wars or terrorism. It is India’s internal matter.

>That is my point. And maybe this is not at all what you want. But it very much sounds like it. At least implicit.

I am a Hindu. I am interested in the survival of my faith in its spiritual homeland. Just like Jews, Christians, Muslims and others revere their spiritual spaces.

Hinduism is more inclusive and tolerant than any of the other predominant monotheistic faiths, but a secular democratic nation cannot treat citizens differently based on their faith.

If India is a Hindu country, minorities would still thrive as they did for thousands of years. Indian history is full of unequal treatment of Hindus and Muslims during Mughal rule and British colonization.

Hindus do not want to convert other religionists to Hinduism and only want a Uniform Civil Code to right the wrongs of the British meddling in our legal system through fair democratic elections.

To call this ‘extremism’ or ‘religious nationalism’ is somewhat disingenuous and untrue. Muslims enjoy far more religious freedoms and are considered equal citizens in India than Hindus in Islamic countries.

All of this can be fact checked through reputable sources and I leave it to you do your own research.

I think we have to come to the end of our conversation. I don’t believe I have anything more to share with you. Thanks for engaging in this discussion. Take care.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dhimmi

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Somnath

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siege_of_Vijayanagar

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Partition_of_India

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Forced_conversion

[lukan]

"Why do you sing Bhajans if you are not Hindu."

"I think we have to come to the end of our conversation"

If you ask a question, but are not interested in my answer anyway, then yes, this conversation has reached the end.