[doytch]

From your snippet I was wondering whether he was butchering the concept that pessimism is suffering twice (both in anticipation and when your pessimism is confirmed) whereas optimism is only suffering once.

But the context of Elon's tweet actually makes more sense than I was expecting from a tweet from Elon. If everyone's pessimistic about the future and doesn't even try then we'll never accomplish anything.

There's nuance to this topic - we shouldn't strip it out.

[lapcat]

> If everyone's pessimistic about the future and doesn't even try then we'll never accomplish anything.

But if optimists are wrong and pessimists are right, then you won't accomplish anything.

> There's nuance to this topic - we shouldn't strip it out.

Musk was responding to and agreeing with a tweet, "The biggest problem in the West right now is many people no longer believe the future will be better than the past."

With regard to, say, global warming, I would say it's rationally undeniable the future will be worse than the past, and the biggest problem isn't a lack of optimism in the present but rather a lack of pessmism in the past. We've known about global warming for many many decades but have done almost nothing to stop it. And a luxury car brand hasn't even made a dent in the problem, a much bigger problem than one person can solve, no matter how wealthy, and it certainly doesn't help that this one person is using any political influence he might have to support people who are in denial of climate change.

One might also wonder, by the way, whether the optimism-fueled and rocket-fueled pollution of the upper atmosphere in pursuit of "Mars" is offsetting any small environmental benefit of the luxury car brand. There are consequences of "trying" things. Oh, and the optimist also wants to try increasing the Earth's human population. More "consciousness". (Not to mention more consumption.)

[runjake]

I think your issue is that you are just a pessimist and aren't able to, or don't want to understand the optimist's viewpoint.

  > With regard to, say, global warming, I would say it's rationally undeniable the future will be worse than the past, and the biggest problem isn't a lack of optimism in the present but rather a lack of pessmism in the past. 

Life is primarily about problem-solving.

From a quantified perspective, the world is improving over time. There is less suffering now than in the past. This progress is driven by optimists who put in the effort to make the world better.

We constantly face problems to solve, both on a personal and global scale. Even as the world improves, there will always be significant challenges to address.

Despite your passive-aggressive swipes at Elon, he has done much more than you or I for the betterment of the planets. He's made EVs and renewable energy mainstream.

  > We've known about global warming for many many decades but have done almost nothing to stop it. 

What are you talking about? The world has done a lot to combat global warming. Just a few things:

- Paris Agreement

- Kyoto Protocol

- Significant investments in wind, solar, and hydro-electric.

- Drastically improved energy efficiency standards and regulations for buildings, vehicles, appliances, and industrial.

- Increased focus on large-scale reforestation and conservation.

- Development of carbon capture technologies.

- EV advances

- Public awareness programs and grassroots movements.

- Carbon and energy taxes

PS: I assume you are "lapcatsoftware" Jeff? Because your pessimism is so signature? I encourage you to try and look at the bright side of things, if only for your own benefit.

[lapcat]

> From a quantified perspective, the world is improving over time. There is less suffering now than in the past.

How are you quantifying that exactly?

> This progress is driven by optimists

Citation needed.

> What are you talking about? The world has done a lot to combat global warming. Just a few things:

> - Paris Agreement

> - Kyoto Protocol

Mostly fluff for politicians to preen.

> - Significant investments in wind, solar, and hydro-electric.

"Significant" is questionable.

> - Increased focus on large-scale reforestation and conservation.

"focus" is not action.

> - Public awareness programs and grassroots movements.

"awareness" is not action. We've already been aware.

You've listed mostly minor steps.

If the world has done a lot, then why have we failed to stop global warming? Why are we continuing to blow through the temperature thresholds that scientists warned about?

Putting band aids on problems may be optimistic, but such optimisim is not a solution to problems.

> PS: I assume you are "lapcatsoftware" Jeff? Because your pessimism is so signature? I encourage you to try and look at the bright side of things, if only for your own benefit.

This kind of personal comment is totally out of line here. You've never met me and know absolutely nothing about me. Moreover, I have zero interest in or use for unsolicited, oversimplistic advice from random anonymous internet commenters.

[runjake]

I'd answer your questions and cite stuff like World Bank, WHO, UNICEF and UNESCO reports and findings, but I do "know" you from formerly following your writings to the extent that I know it would do no good.

FWIW, I do have no ill will towards you, I still pay (and will continue to, on its merit) for your excellent software, and wish you the best, whether you choose to believe it or not.

[lapcat]

> I'd answer your questions and cite stuff like World Bank, WHO, UNICEF and UNESCO reports and findings

Are you referring to suffering? I wasn't so much disputing your claim as suggesting that it was far too vague to make an intelligent comment either way. Surely, though, you must admit that some things sometimes get worse? That our earthly existence is not a magical uniform stairway to heaven but rather, to use a different analogy, like a series of peaks and valleys, punctuated by the occasional pieces of rock falling from the sky?

> FWIW, I do have no ill will towards you, I still pay (and will continue to, on its merit) for your excellent software, and wish you the best, whether you choose to believe it or not.

I believe that you wish me the best. I have no objection to that. However, I don't believe that you know what's best for me, and in general I strongly object to unsolicited advice, especially from strangers. It should also be noted that my online writing is just one small portion of myself.

[NohatCoder]

Being pessimistic is not the same thing as not trying. On the contrary, if you want to make the future better, focusing on what looks to be going wrong is often the best place to spend your effort.

The optimists in this context are people who don't believe in problems like climate change or the fall of democracy, and therefore do nothing to prevent them. Their optimism is what will destroy society.

[fulafel]

> If everyone's pessimistic about the future and doesn't even try then we'll never accomplish anything.

Historically people can and do rise to the occasion in face of impending tragedies (eg wars, famines, genocide) and try to mitigate and cope with the disaster. Sometimes more, sometimes less, but generally a bad outlook is not enough to render people passive.