[thephyber]

> Plenty of people in North Korea or Iran or Russia protest against their governments too. But we don't, and shouldn't, let that persuade us to keep doing business with people in those countries.

The second you find out your own government has done something immoral, do you immediately get caught in a tight `while true { … }` loop?

You chose those examples exactly because they are extreme. Non-governmental citizens have damn near zero influence over government policy.

A boycott by some citizens in a different country is entirely different than coordinated multi lateral sanctions which are reinforced by law and international organizations who fear breaking the law.

Israel is very different. The Knesset is a multi-party parliamentary rule system. Voters in Israel have a lot more influence on their representatives than I do as a voter in California/USA. My point is that we should be clear about what behaviors we want to shape and provide both the carrot and the stick in plain view.

[lmm]

> You chose those examples exactly because they are extreme.

No, I chose them because they're examples of countries that many people refuse to trade with. Feel free to consider Cuba or any other pariah state.

> Non-governmental citizens have damn near zero influence over government policy... Voters in Israel have a lot more influence on their representatives than I do as a voter in California/USA.

Surely that makes it more defensible to boycott Israeli businesses because of the actions of their state, not less.

> we should be clear about what behaviors we want to shape and provide both the carrot and the stick in plain view.

The people boycotting Israel have been pretty clear about what they're calling for (much clearer than e.g. Iran, which complied with the deal we'd made with them and was then still hit with sanctions anyway).