[betaby]

Podman Destop is surprisingly bad on MacOS. It has a kind of proxy-like/userspace network driver. That means your tcp connection shown in a host system through `netstat`. ICPM is not implemented and always returns success. Try running `ping 66.0.0.0` or any other non-existing IP from the container and see. At that moment I'll continue using, well, podman in a Linux VM running UTM.

[chrisldgk]

If you haven’t tried it yet, I can recommend OrbStack[1] for container things on macOS. I don’t use it for anything more than spinning up dev DBs locally, but I know it supports Kubernetes in some form or another.

[1] https://orbstack.dev

[wiseowise]

https://docs.orbstack.dev/faq#open-source

Into the trash it goes.

[chrisldgk]

This is neither 4chan nor Reddit, if you don’t have anything to add to the conversation other than cheap quips, this is not the place for you to post.

I agree I would prefer if OrbStack were open source, but there’s a place and value in high quality closed source apps within the ecosystem. They do also open-source parts of the application, which is more than a lot of closed source developers do. If nothing else, maybe someone can find a way to utilize the advancements that OrbStack provides and can make an open source alternative.

[shepherdjerred]

Are you not concerned about the closed-source OS that this closed-source app is running on?

[wiseowise]

One step at a time.

[lmz]

Along with the OS it runs on? Or is it just App developers that you don't allow to make money?

[switchbak]

With a number of open-core projects pulling the rug from under us recently: Terraform, Akka, etc. I'm with the parent - there's no way I'm building on a shaky foundation if you're just going to fuck me over.

And yes, I understand this is their choice, they need to make money, etc. But the real issue here is they're presenting their stuff as suitable to build your company on, then once you're reliant on them they start charging (big) money.

Just start out charging money and make it good enough to justify that, enough with the bait and switch.

Apple has an upfront revenue model, and I'm happy to pay for that (when I do). So does Datadog, so does Amazon. But don't pretend to live in the OSS world then want to also be a SaaS when you've achieved escape velocity. They're "succeeding" by destroying the relationship with the people that gave them that success.

[evanelias]

> they're presenting their stuff as suitable to build your company on, then once you're reliant on them they start charging (big) money.

Where is Orbstack doing any of that? The product has always been closed-source and requires a paid license for commercial use.

> But don't pretend to live in the OSS world then want to also be a SaaS when you've achieved escape velocity

Ditto here, Orbstack isn't "pretending to live in the OSS world", nor is it a SaaS. Why are you making these claims?

[wiseowise]

Where did I say they shouldn’t make money?

[phone[phone]]

How pure does someone need to be before you leave them alone?

[lmz]

There's an obvious answer if they want an open source container experience that works great (at least the container part, not the desktop part): run it on Linux. To slam a Mac only product that by most accounts runs well, and quite a bit better than its competitors, just because it's not Open Source is disgusting.

[phone[phone]]

I wish I had as few problems in my life as you because I would never consider saying "I'm not using this because it's not open source" to be "slamming" or "disgusting".

[gbalduzzi]

I never used podman desktop but I LOVE OrbStack.

Compared to docker desktop it's night and day, it is so much more performant and I never had an issue with it, totally recommend.

[shepherdjerred]

I'm a very happy, paying OrbStack user. The UI is much more responsive that Docker Desktop. It also has a very unique debug shell [0] feature that allows you access to common tools even in minimal images.

[0]: https://docs.orbstack.dev/features/debug

[twelvenmonkeys]

I've edited the title to add more information on macOS. With this release we now implement Podman 5.1.0 which includes a MASSIVE speedup for AMD64 builds / running containers as well as improvements to the podman networking stack.

[mrweasel]

I would go so far at saying that Podman Desktop for macOS is non-functional. My understanding is that Podman Desktop will spin up some sort of Linux VM to do all the actual containerization, and the network/proxy is just a mess. For all I know Docker Desktop does the same, but if it does it's better at hiding it.

Docker Desktop also works perfectly well with AMD64 emulation and/or Rosetta.

[rhatdan]

Linux containers require a Linux kernel. Any tool on a MAC that is running containers locally is doing it in a VM.