[adriancr]

> Perhaps for your parents, but many people who lived through such times still look with fondness at the USSR.

Because for most, that was their youth, of course you're going to have nostalgia for that, even if you and everyone you knew were starving, you had your life assigned to you by the party, women were treated like cattle, any sign of discontent you got secret service torturing you, you got killed for protesting... that second part you forget or were part of privileged classes and actively profited from it and it was indeed better.

Another factor is the active propaganda: https://www.reddit.com/r/Romania/comments/1bncqt4/aveam_de_t...

Picture is funny and it actively translates to

"Childhood memories department, at work on the internet, circa 2024"

"Do you remember how we put white animal fat on bread and how good that tasted?, we had it all..."

> 70% of Moldovans, and so on.

That's funny, there, after 1989 Russia started a war to keep them locked in their influence and constantly meddles with them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria_War

Were they actually able to unite with Romania like east germany they would be much better, but they were dragged back into misery...

I am not knowledgeable enough about the rest to comment.

> This is precisely why the right of emigration must also be a part of this system.

Why are you saying emigration is a solution?

It won't work since there won't be anybody to enforce it. (good luck emigrating from NK right now)

It's not moral, why should someone leave everything they've ever known behind. Economic reasons?, help their region be more productive. Social reasons, help their region be better. Persecution?, destroy the mechanisms for that. Getting rid of those factors would remove the need for emigration and everyone would be better off.

It's not sustainable, what would 10B people just in EU/USA look like?, what would be left of bad places?, just the dictators?

It's not good for the future when we'll likely reach for the stars and earth just consolidates in a single political entity (hopefully democratic).

Did you actually think through implications of your idea?, or is it born out of your personal experience and just think that since it worked for you it would work for everyone else?

> That wasn't a multipolar world.

It was if you had considered China as a separate entity, which you should have, it wasn't just USSR vs USA. ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict )

[somenameforme]

The problem here is that you're simply assuming near global agreement with your personal values. That is very much not the case. No, those 70% weren't just some privileged elite, it's people who simply think differently than you, or your parents, might. And this is true for the overwhelming majority of the world. People value different things in life. And there's no single system that can really embrace and fairly represent all views.

Emigration, as a component, works out of simple self interest. In this proposed system the cost of emigration would be relatively low, yet the benefits would not.

[adriancr]

> No, those 70% weren't just some privileged elite

You just cherry picked one number of one country, I can do the same to reach opposite conclusion if you want to argue in bad faith.

> In a 2017 survey, 75% of Estonians said the dissolution of the USSR was a good thing, compared to only 15% who said it was a bad thing.[10]

Mirroring your argument, 75% of people say it was a good thing for what happened. (to quote you those 75% are people who simply think differently than you might.)

> People value different things in life. And there's no single system that can really embrace and fairly represent all views.

Are you actually arguing that dictatorship and oppression should be respected because some people like them?, I'm sure everyone in NK absolutely loves Kim and their system.

> Emigration, as a component, works out of simple self interest. In this proposed system the cost of emigration would be relatively low, yet the benefits would not.

So what do you do if all 10B people living everywhere want to move to the US tomorrow?

[somenameforme]

I'm not cherry picking anything. The point I am making is that people see things differently. I was aware you obviously know there are plenty of people that have less than fond views of the USSR, and there are plenty which have extremely fond views of it. This is the nature of humanity, which is the point.

And tolerating these different preferences, desires, views, systems, values, and so on is the only possible way we might ever achieve something resembling a more stable and desirable world order. The right of emigration does not mean countries are forced to accept people. Accepting migrants would be up to the nation people are seeking to move to.

[adriancr]

> And tolerating these different preferences, desires, views, systems, values, and so on is the only possible way we might ever achieve something resembling a more stable and desirable world order.

How can one tolerate the abuses that went on behind the iron curtain and other dictatorships?

Even if some people are still fond of them, it's unacceptable for such systems to exist and those people are morally reprehensible.

[somenameforme]

Well the USSR no longer exists, and so I think that specific question is a nonstarter. But generalizing? This gets back to what we were talking about earlier. Look at any country with power and you're going to find quite a lot of the world would think the world would be a better place without that country, in many cases the majority of the world.

And this will never change, because people hold many views that are simply mutually exclusive, and we always will. So we can continue to fight and kill each other until the point somebody finally goes all the way and we end up nuking ourselves out of existence, or we can learn to tolerate one another - even when we really don't like the other guy.

[adriancr]

> Well the USSR no longer exists, and so I think that specific question is a nonstarter.

Russia still exists and is unchanged in behavior but much less powerful. So something went right, just not enough.

> Look at any country with power

Some are much better then others and always have been.

> And this will never change,

That's what they used to say about monarchies.

> so we can continue to fight and kill each other

Fighting back and forcing change is justified. It's not like the other side is standing still and not trying to destabilize us.

> and we end up nuking ourselves out of existence

We haven't in worse conditions.

> or we can learn to tolerate one another - even when we really don't like the other guy.

Tolerating abuses is unacceptable.