[impossiblefork]

The diplomatic cables contain all sorts of information about extraordinary rendition, about the use Turkish airbases, Irish complicity, etc.

This isn't small potatoes. Here in Sweden it wasn't just the extradition from Bromma in 2001, but the US flew multiple illegal flights with prisoners through Sweden, possibly to the US torture camps in Poland and eastern Europe.

I also think these cables revealed information about the Thailand black site, where the US was torturing some people.

[chinchilla2020]

fascinating how Swedes are so concerned about the small number of crimes committed by the US and want the US to withdraw.

Yet they remain steadfastly silent on the crimes committed by Russia and China.

Should the US withdraw from geopolitics and allow those other two to fill the vacuum?

Like Julian Assange himself - I suspect many Russia supporters are hiding in plain sight.

[impossiblefork]

>fascinating how Swedes are so concerned about the small number of crimes committed by the US and want the US to withdraw.

Withdraw from what?

>Yet they remain steadfastly silent on the crimes committed by Russia and China.

How have we been silent on those crimes. We have been quite concerned, they are almost next to us.

I don't myself want to be part of NATO, but evidently the government is to afraid not to be, so now we are.

>Should the US withdraw from geopolitics and allow those other two to fill the vacuum?

The US has not gained anything of geopolitical value by storing people in the Guantanamo Bay prison camp or by flying suspect terrorist to torture camps in Europe, or by inhuman treatment of prisoners, as happened at Bromma. It hasn't gained anything geopolitically by going after people who revealed war crimes.

The US actions that I oppose are for the large part neither of benefit to the US itself, nor to me. On the whole these actions are just stupid.

To the degree that I want to avoid US troops in Sweden, this stupidity, these useless and harmful decisions that get implemented are one of the problems. Because if the US can this stupid on matters like Assange, or can desperately want to torture some random nobody, and are in such a hurry to do so, that they fly him through Bromma just because can refuel there, then they can do any kind of idiocy, and it can end up being me, or something Swedish that matters that pays the price.

The US can defend its interests in a more co-operative way and with greater respect for international law and for its partners.

>Like Julian Assange himself - I suspect many Russia supporters are hiding in plain sight.

If you're implying that I would like Putin, who I consider basically a Chechen-cuddler. I've had less problems with him historically, and I don't think I fully understood how vengeful he was until he did as he did against the Karabach-Armenians. I'm probably more pro-Russia than Zelensky is-- I don't hate the Russians and I like many aspects of Russian culture, including their mathematics tradition and some of their music.

I don't see the Ukraine war as per se very different from the Iraq war. This means that I view Russia and the US as closer on the level of morality than most people, who I feel have a bit of short term view of the world. These things 20 years ago are like yesterday to me. Details matter though, and scale, and many other things.

Rather, when it comes to support of Ukraine my view is not based on morality as such, although I do believe that the Ukrainians have a right to rule their country, but rather on Swedish defence needs. We Swedes need to support them and ensure that Russia does not expand and get a border against Poland or some other unnecessarily forward position. There is no reason why we should allow such a situation, which will only cause us problems.

[CRConrad]

> If you're implying that I would like Putin, who I consider basically a Chechen-cuddler.

Oh yeah, that's the big problem with him. Sheesh...

> I don't see the Ukraine war as per se very different from the Iraq war.

Yeah, I distinctly remember how Shrub denied that the Iraqi people exist, claimed they were all Americans anyway, and set out to annex Iraq to the USA. And who can forget the moving ceremony when he bestowed Statehood upon those four Iraqi provinces? Sheesh... Try as I might, I can't come up with any reason for why you would want to pretend to be this stupid, so...

> This means that I view Russia and the US as closer on the level of morality than most people, who I feel have a bit of short term view of the world.

Yeah no, that means it's you who are... If not morally blind, at least severely short-sighted.