[phito]

Why do Windows users try so hard to keep defending their OS's shitty behaviors? It's always "you can disable it" (but it might come back automatically after an update), and when you can't disable it (one drive), it's "just don't use it".

[wvenable]

I think it's a bit overblown. I don't have OneDrive enabled or Teams on my personal device and it was easy and mostly forgettable. I haven't any issues with it coming back after an update or anything. Edge isn't my default browser either.

I feel like people want Windows to be evil so they oversell the issues.

That's not to say that Microsoft should be forgiven for their obvious over-promotion of internal products. They really need a strong hand to rein in all these departments with their own metrics and agendas.

[ryandrake]

I think the general principle people are operating out of is that: The USER should be the one deciding 1. what gets installed onto their computer, 2. what gets run on the computer and when, and 3. the configuration of their own system. The OS vendor should not be deciding these things, nor the manufacturer of the computer.

It's not enough that we can just ignore or correct these things that are just happening on our own computers without our consent. These things should not be happening to begin with.

[RajT88]

> I think it's a bit overblown.

Indeed, they've been playing shenanigans with OneDrive, but you can actually uninstall it now easily. That didn't used to be the case. Yes, it gets re-installed, yes it now is auto-enabling itself, but hey - you can easily remove it now.

I'm pretty sure I solved definitively the Teams autostart problem long ago, easily enough I can't recall what I did. It's not a problem for me, even on 'Home' machines.

[javcasas]

> Yes, it gets re-installed, yes it now is auto-enabling itself, but hey - you can easily remove it now.

Long, long ago we had names for software that auto-installs and auto enables even after you have removed it: malware, or spyware if it's not very destructive.

[naikrovek]

> people want Windows to be evil so they oversell the issues.

This, is it exactly.

Microsoft makes some very bad decisions, do not get me wrong. I agree with you and I think this is the core of why people complain so vehemently about Microsoft.

[psunavy03]

> I feel like people want Windows to be evil so they oversell the issues.

This goes to explain a lot of reactions that Very Online people tend to have to things. There must be a villain and that villain must be irredeemable. Even when, as the Brits would say, "cock-up" is a more likely explanation than "conspiracy."

[pompino]

Why are you so upset that people derive a lot of value from Windows? Enough that they want to keep using it, and defend it because they don't agree with the "everything is broken" meme.

[MereInterest]

Because like industrial waste, Windows exports problems to other systems.

1. Windows has an absurdly short maximum path length of 260 characters.

2. On Windows, moving files to a temporary directory can fail, if the temporary directory has a longer prefix than the original path.

3. When uninstalling, the python utility "pip" first collects files into a temporary directory, then deletes that temporary directory.

4. To avoid running into MAX_PATH limits, pip doesn't use a normal temp directory. Instead, it makes a temporary directory adjacent to the directory it is removing. (https://github.com/pypa/pip/pull/6029)

5. If pip is interrupted while uninstalling, the adjacent temp directory is never deleted.

So, in order to work around a Windows-only problem, pip stopped using standard file locations, creating a new problem that only existed due to the workaround. And then I'm left trying to figure out why I'm running out of disk space.

[mike_hearn]

The MAX_PATH limit is annoying legacy backwards compatible stuff, but can be avoided by prefixing paths with \\?\ before passing them into the Windows API.

This is something that languages/runtimes with more effort put into portability already handle for you:

https://github.com/openjdk/jdk/blob/master/src/java.base/win...

If Python doesn't do this it's just because the sort of people who write Python don't care about Windows enough to fix it.

[pompino]

https://www.cvedetails.com/top-50-products.php

Yeah, I don't see Windows in the top 5.

[tolciho]

Because even if you don't touch Windows (or whatever mediocre malware Microsoft presently peddles) those folks come to you and say stuff like "skype won't start" and lo! it does not start, though after much clicking around and rebooting and trying the obvious things you discover that if you right-click and try "open with skype" on the skype icon then skype will start. That problem at some point disappeared as mysteriously as it appeared. Eh, who knows, it's Windows, and there's more science to reading tea leaves or goose entrails.

Then after za'o decades of stories like the above (it is merely the most recent of many) one might wonder how does Microsoft with so many programmers and so much money produce such kusogeware? That continues to waste my time?

[pompino]

You can have your own view. Nobody is taking it away or forcing you to believe otherwise. My point is why are people so upset when someone has a different view or doesn't agree with your personal view on Microsoft?

[programjames]

What? You shouldn't defend bad behaviour regardless of if you derive a lot of value from the same source. A good organization wants to be called out on shitty practices so they improve.

[pompino]

You can make an argument to convince people of your personal point of view, but there is no reason to be all upset if someone has a different viewpoint. Thankfully we are all at liberty to have our own view on this topic.