[PlutoIsAPlanet]

Microsoft loves pushing people to buy macOS devices it would seem.

Windows really does have the potential to be ideal for professionals, the things macOS does that make it better are all small but Microsoft just seems to paramount on sabotaging their operating system.

I really feel sorry for OEMs that really don't have a choice but to ship Windows and have to stomach this shit being associated with their products.

[bux93]

I recently bought a minipc that comes with W11. The manual actually says to install it without access to the internet, apparently to make it fall back to allowing you to create a local account.

[woleium]

but the moment you enter your ms credentials it’ll “upgrade” your account

[aquir]

I already did...and I like it! MacOS is far from perfect but much more usable that Windows 11 imho. I am missing some tools but slowly finding alternatives

[EasyMark]

I used to recommend against macOS as overpriced, but given Microsoft’s attempt to turn everything into a subscription license and mandatory surveillance of all your activities and data, if at all possible financially I recommend getting a Mac now.

[beretguy]

The reason i don’t buy Macs is planned obsolescence. Even if i would have mac it would still be running Linux. Might as well not waste money and buy refurbished pc and install Linux on it.

[queuebert]

Thanks for reminding me of the hundreds of dollars of games on Steam I bought to play on Mac and now can't because I didn't realize that giving into to their Apple's incessant update nagging would completely remove support for those games.

[bluescrn]

In spite of everything else, you've got to respect MS for their commitment to backward compatibility. I still frequently run Paint Shop Pro 7 (bought way back in 2000) on Windows 10.

Meanwhile, iOS games I developed in the 2012-2014 period were no longer runnable by the end of 2017 (due to the iOS transition to 64bit)

[beretguy]

Wow, yeah, i didn’t even know about that. That’s another reason to never use macos.

[HeckFeck]

It's not as bad as you think. I'm currently rocking a 2017 MBA and it's eminently usable for all my needs even with 8GB RAM. 7 year's service is fairly good for a laptop, I've only recently changed the battery.

For non-gamers and lighter workloads you could easily make do with earlier models, provided they have a SSD.

[beretguy]

> 7 year's service is fairly good for a laptop

No it is not. That is a very low bar.

[HeckFeck]

*7 years so far....

But what's your best anyway?

[beretguy]

Currently using dell latitude from 2014, so it’s 10 years old. Bought it refurbished a few years ago for around $130. Upgraded its ram to 16 GB and storage to 2 TB SSD. And it has removable battery. Should last me well beyond 2030s.

[HeckFeck]

Interesting, I was expecting a ThinkPad. Presumably you're on Linux too. But good going, I'll formally challenge you to a race if I can remember to come back this thread.

My own long-term plan is to install Linux when Apple drops support for Monterey on this hardware.

[cantSpellSober]

> Even if i would have mac it would still be running Linux

This was my plan, any solid distros that support the ARM64 silicon (M3 & M4 specifically) OOTB? I've concerns about support for the touchpad, webcam etc.

[TimeBearingDown]

As of the last Asahi Linux update at the beginning of this year, they had caught up with M2 series only.

https://asahilinux.org/2024/01/fedora-asahi-new/

[Dalewyn]

>Microsoft loves pushing people to buy macOS devices it would seem.

MacOS is basically unusable without logging into an Apple account, your logic does not follow.

This said, MacOS seems to be slowly but surely taking over former Windows use cases both in business and homes. If I had to guess why, it's probably the consistent, coherent GUI across the entire Apple ecosystem. People use computers to get shit done, after all.

[HeckFeck]

> MacOS is basically unusable without logging into an Apple account

It depends if you mean the OS + cloud services + app store, or just having an OS to run programs. The former definitely needs the Apple ID, but the latter doesn't. When I first switched back to macOS I refused any Apple ID linkage during OOBE and it never asked again. I just used Nextcloud, Firefox, LibreOffice and FOSS utilities, everything worked.

Later I did connect it after researching Apple's privacy policies, encryption methods and on-device processing - afaik I'm getting the cloud goodness without Apple selling my data, and that was enough to sway me.

[the_snooze]

>MacOS is basically unusable without logging into an Apple account

I use a Mac at my job with no Apple ID linked to it. What am I missing out on? It's not like you need to use the App Store to get software, so that's not it.

[Aaron2222]

macOS is completely usable without an Apple ID. All you lose is iCloud, iMessage, FaceTime, iTunes/Apple Music/Apple TV, and the Mac App Store (but most apps are distributed outside of it anyway). And you can sign into the Mac App Store separately from iCloud as well. So not really comparable to Microsoft's push for signing in with a Microsoft account.

[eesmith]

I only used Apple Id once, to install the C compiler ("Command Line Tools (CLT) for Xcode", for Homebrew).

Though that was 2 years ago - has it changed?

[Aaron2222]

Apple ID shouldn't be required for that (unless you're downloading it from the Apple Developer site instead of installing through macOS directly?).

[eesmith]

Maybe I'm wrong? It's been a couple of years. I think I recall there were alternatives, but using my Apple ID was easiest?

[Aaron2222]

You should just be prompted to install it whenever you try and run a command (like Git or Clang) that's installed by it. `xcode-select --install` triggers the installation as well. macOS just downloads and installs it through the same underlying mechanism that macOS updates are installed by, no account required.

(Homebrew also just installs it automatically now, without needing any user intervention.)

EDIT: Maybe you were put off by the insane time estimate that it presents for some reason? It quotes a multi-day installation time that ends up only taking a few minutes. Maybe Apple will fix that someday.

[Zambyte]

Why don't they have a choice? Contractual agreements?

[davidmurdoch]

Linux isn't actually a serious competitor in this space.

[queuebert]

It should be. Everything in the world runs on Linux except people who write Word documents and emails for a living. All that's missing is a simple UI that provides LibreOffice and a browser and doesn't nag you or leave you vulnerable to malware and then educating purchasing agents to know about it and trust it.

[ziddoap]

>Everything in the world runs on Linux except people who write Word documents and emails for a living.

Many many games, SolidWorks CAD, QuickBooks Enterprise, Act! CRM, etc.... A small sample of things that don't run on Linux.

We have different opinions of "everything".

[Zhyl]

Proton DB says that 89% of the top 1000 games, 89% of the top 100 and 6 of the top 10 games on steam are rated Silver or above (a 7th is rated Bronze and 3 are broken).

AreWeAntiCheat yet says:

161 games are Supported (42%)

46 games are Running (12%)

3 are planning to support Linux (1%)

147 are currently Broken (38%)

28 (only) are explicitly Denied (7%)

So, many don't but, also, many do. Not everything, not nothing.

[davidmurdoch]

So most businesses.

[yonatan8070]

I've seen laptops from large OEMs likr HP and Lenovo that ship with Ubuntu by default

[wing-_-nuts]

The last two laptops I've purchased have been the same model as dell's 'developer editions' that came with linux preinstalled. Ironically I bought them with windows both times because the windows versions were on sale for like 25% off while the true 'developer editions' were still full price.

First thing I did was format them and install linux. My mom has my laptop from 2008 and it's still going strong with a lightweight mint xfce distro.

[consp]

My guess is the reason for this is the lower default prize displayed, since in some regions they have to include the OS price in the total (or deduct it when you don't want it).

[davidmurdoch]

Sure, and I've bought those for myself. Doesn't change the fact that they're (perceived as) useless for nearly all business use cases.

[Zambyte]

> Doesn't change the fact that they're (perceived as) useless for nearly all business use cases.

That seems like the OEMs choice? Valve doesn't seem to be struggling with marketing non Windows for a usecase that was seen as "unsupported" until they came along.

[rocqua]

The demand for other OSes isn't really there other than on Phones.

[LightHugger]

Despite all the awfulness of windows, macos is just as user hostile if not moreso especially on the hardware layer, so i'm not really sure about that one. I understand apple users have a strange blindness to this reality though. Linux though, yes for sure.

[EasyMark]

User hostile?sure. As windows? Not even close. MS shoves ads, constant surveillance, and other annoying anti features constantly on their users. You can easily use a Mac with without Mac cloud access.