[grecy]

> many fond memories of it, but mostly when I think about it I'm filled with sadness, because the people there deserve so much better. They're constantly knee-deep in corruption, both street level and just the very blatant kleptocratic presidential family

I spent 2 years driving the length of the Pan-American Highway, and 3 years driving right around the African continent.

What you said can equally be applied to many places I spent a good deal of time in. Incredibly friendly, warm, kind and happy people to a degree I did not know was possible on planet earth. Sadly they're held down by corruption, ineptitude and the West.

Happily, virtually every single person laughs, sings, dances and celebrates basically everyday, because they choose to be vibrantly happy despite all the BS.

[blackhawkC17]

> Incredibly friendly, warm, kind and happy people to a degree I did not know was possible on planet earth. Sadly they're held down by corruption, ineptitude and the West.

The problems are significantly of their own doing. I live in one such country (Nigeria), and many people say the same thing about my people- warm, friendly, and whatever.

But being warm and friendly doesn’t build a successful nation. Tribalism, high tolerance for corruption from the locals, and lack of the rule of law are what ruin these countries, and citizens are either too apathetic or outrightly support the same incompetent leaders ruining them.

Besides, some people are friendly to white foreigners but hostile to locals from another tribe.

[BeFlatXIII]

> high tolerance for corruption from the locals

I wonder how much of this is equivalent to small towns in the US passing laws to become speed traps. They get their revenue from out-of-towners passing through as the natural design speed of the highway instead of the posted limit. The difference is that police bribes go directly to the officer's pocket while speeding tickets get sent to the municipal budget, then allocated to the officer's salary.

[simfree]

What do you think of the wave of companies trying to cash in on inexpensive labor from countries in Africa?

My experience working as a vendor to a company that hired Zimworks out of Zimbabwe was rather underwhelming. Pastoral care was all they offered for healthcare to the local Zimbabwean employees, and the time shift the local employees endured seemed to wear heavily on them.

[JoeJonathan]

While we can't blame colonialism for everything, "tribalism" throughout much of Africa is as much a product of colonial strategy (divide and conquer) as it is precolonial tension. British colonial administrators mastered this strategy.

[coldtea]

>But being warm and friendly doesn’t build a successful nation

No, but kicking out the greedy WASPs and their lackeys and post-colonial infuence schemes does though - though seldom realized

[blackhawkC17]

> No, but kicking out the greedy WASPs and their lackeys and post-colonial infuence schemes does though - though seldom realized

This is the same mentality that contributes to these countries remaining poor. Just kick out the “WASPs”…so that the local kleptocrats take over.

The problem is corruption and lack of rule of law, not WASPs or whatever acronym can be used to blame foreigners instead of taking responsibility.

[coldtea]

>This is the same mentality that contributes to these countries remaining poor. Just kick out the “WASPs”…so that the local kleptocrats take over.

The "local kleptocrats" are usually just lackeys of those WASPs, put in place, supported financially and diplomatically, with arms and so on (and by pressuring their opponents) to ensure the stealing continues. On their own, they're small time crooks, the real bulk of the countries riches still goes back to the post-colonial masters...

>The problem is corruption and lack of rule of law, not WASPs

Corruption and lack of rule of law is a feature, not a bug. A feature kept in place by those bugs, the WASPs, with the help of loyal local scum.

"But, but, but those WASPS kept the rule of law an order when they governed directly as colonial masters"

Yeah, when you rule a colony and live there as ruler, it tends to benefit you to keep the rule of law. You get to stroll safe, and besides all your own colonial stealing is done "by the book" and is a-ok since it's based on your laws.

It's when you leave the place (or get kicked out) that you opt for the "divide and conquer" and "get friendly local scum to power" approaches, and helping keep the country poor, corrupt, and at war, pays dividends...

And you have your establishment scholars point out how it's the local's bad culture and unfitness for rule of law that prevents them for flourishing.

It's the same kind of people who would have written that the locals are inferior races and need taming and someone to keep them in order, a century or so ago...

[jcranmer]

By your logic, Zimbabwe should be the flourishing paradise of Africa; I'm not sure there's a country that has seen so thorough an enmity between its post-colonial ruling elite and its former colonial master (well, maybe Algeria). Yet ZANU-PF's signature achievement is the forced redistribution of land away from the white settlers, and in the process promulgated the utter ruination of its own economy.

[blackhawkC17]

Zimbabwe kicked out all the WASPs. Where did they end up? A failed state.

The issue is not WASPs, it’s bad governance. But I guess life is easy when one can just blame WASPs rather than examine themselves to find fault.

We Africans have autonomy but refuse to use it for good. It’s condescending to assume we have no role in our problems and, to follow the logic, no role in the solutions.

[pasabagi]

Isn't it a bit a matter of culture, though? Colonial administrations are built to extract wealth from a country. So, when you get independence, that's still what the government, hell, even the infrastructure, is built for. Half the rail lines go straight to a port, all the bureaucrats know is how to squeeze people. So you end up with 'bad governance', even decades later, because that's the culture of governance that gets passed on, generation to generation.

[ginko]

Why WASPs in particular? Not even Anglo or Protestant, just wondering.

[throwaway2037]

How did you get across the Darian Gap?

[grecy]

I shipped the Jeep in a shipping container from Colon in Panama to Cartegena in Colombia.

I documented the whole enterprise here http://theroadchoseme.com/shipping-across-the-darien-gap-pt-...

[admissionsguy]

> and the West

what?

[grecy]

Have you ever wondered why Switzerland is the world's second largest exporter of processed coffee, despite never growing a single bean? [1]. Germany is 3rd, Netherlands is 4th. Hmmmm.

Have you ever wondered why all those poor countries around the world sell unprocessed coffee to Switzerland for pennies rather than telling Switzerland to take a hike, processing it themselves and making way more money?

Have you ever wondered why many very poor countries around the world sell their raw minerals for a tiny fraction of the globally accepted price?

After three years on the ground in Africa, my eyes were very wide open. The multi-billion dollar loans from the IMF and World Bank have these countries over a barrel, and if they try to change the status quo, they will be sent back to the dark ages instantly. Spending time in Sudan was very educational, though it means I can never get a visa-wavier for the US. Why do you think that is? (Hint: gas in Sudan was 6 cents a liter..., diesel was half that)

Also very educational to try at get a visa for Ecuatorial Guninea (it has a TON of oil, and a TON of multi-national companies ripping it out). A foreigner can go to the island where the capital is no problem, but try getting permission to go to the mainland - you can't. Even with a valid visa you can't get in. (I camped in view of it here [2] )

Why? Because they don't want you to see what is happening there.

[1] https://www.statista.com/statistics/1096413/main-export-coun...

[2] http://theroadchoseme.com/cameroon-closes

[blackhawkC17]

> Have you ever wondered why all those poor countries around the world sell unprocessed coffee to Switzerland for pennies rather than telling Switzerland to take a hike, processing it themselves and making way more money?

Setting up a factory costs a lot of money, and almost no one is willing to make long-term investments in a corrupt and unstable country.

> The multi-billion dollar loans from the IMF and World Bank have these countries over a barrel, and if they try to change the status quo, they will be sent back to the dark ages instantly.

Botswana, the best-governed country in Africa, has managed its economy well enough to never need an IMF bailout. Meanwhile, Ghana has gone begging for IMF bailouts 17 times [1]. If the Ghanaian leaders (voted in by citizens) weren't perpetually inept, the country wouldn't constantly go to the IMF with begging plates.

> Spending time in Sudan was very educational, though it means I can never get a visa-wavier for the US. Why do you think that is? (Hint: gas in Sudan was 6 cents a liter..., diesel was half that)

Sudan had a murderous dictator who reigned for three decades. He was toppled, but it didn't take long for the country to fall into a current bloody civil war.

> A foreigner can go to the island where the capital is no problem, but try getting permission to go to the mainland - you can't. Even with a valid visa you can't get in. (I camped in view of it here [2] )

Because Equitoreal Guinea is run by a comical dictator who lives lavishly while most of his citizens live in penury. Of course, he doesn't want foreigners to see the mess he oversees.

As an African (Nigerian to be specific), I'm actually tired of foreigners always finding excuses for our problems. It's condescending to assume we have no agency, and everything bad that happens to us is the fault of some foreign boogeymen.

1- https://www.ghanaweb.com/GhanaHomePage/business/Year-in-Revi....

[FormerBandmate]

Processing coffee yourself takes skill that gangsters who take over a government don't have. The most successful countries after decolonization are meritocracies

[fsckboy]

>Have you ever wondered why farmers sell unprocessed grains to mills for millions of pennies rather than telling the mills to take a hike, processing it themselves and making way more money, all in the USofA and EU?

because it makes economic sense to do that.

but you can act locally, why do you buy clothing instead of knitting your own, and then with your spare time milling your own flour?