[rqtwteye]

"The VA is the penultimate example and I wouldn't wish that upon my worst enemy. That's where our veterans go to commit suicide in the parking lots waiting on help."

The people I know who use the VA are quite OK with it. It's not perfect but none of them would want to put up with the insanity the rest of us has to.

[Clubber]

It really depends on the hospital.

[Arrath]

I know vets who have moved states simply to leave a poorly run VA region and find a good one, so yes it very much does.

[wernercd]

Yeah... and the people that commit suicide in the parking lots waiting on help? They are chopped liver? They don't matter.

"it's not perfect" It's garbage and a prime example of government programs. Works for a few and fucks over the rest.

The ACA helps a few... and is built on lies - keep your plan? keep your doctor? save $2500 a year? Lies, lies, lies... a few million get help. The other 100m pay more, higher deductibles, lose their plans, lose their doctors.

But who cares about the 100m if the 1m get helped, eh?

the biggest problem is the wasted money, the lies and the people dying in the parking lots.

But who gives a f' about them eh?

[int_19h]

If you care about the people, look at the numbers across many different countries, not just US. The picture is pretty clear: US, with its mostly privately run and for-profit healthcare system, spends significantly more money per patient while achieving worse results for that money. The vast majority of Americans would get a better deal as far as their healthcare goes in literally every other developed country.

[wernercd]

And it's gotten worse the more the government steps in to help.

The problem is the suggestion that government solutions will solve government created problems.

I have no problem admitting things can be fixed... but stuff like the unAffordable Care Act which is built on lies (Like your plan? Like your doctor? save $2500/year) is not going to solve the issues - nor is single payer, government ran solutions.

You'll never solve government created problems with government ran beauracracy.

[int_19h]

Those other countries that have it better than we do have healthcare systems either run directly by their governments, or tightly regulated by it in a way that effectively means that the government decides how things are run.

[wernercd]

Those other countries also have problems and people with money still go elsewhere when they need help. Rationing exists. Long lines exist. Denials exist. Shortages of doctors exist. etc.

The problem is that the conversation only focuses on the good parts of those systems and ignores the issues.

You can't have a real conversation and claim "have it better" when that may be true in parts but not in whole.

I don't claim the US system is better... or the best. But claiming that government ran or government overregulation leads to better is a lie. The VA is proof of that. the lies around the unACA is proof of that. The ever increasing prices and decreasing results due to government influence is proof of that.

Destroying what we have with something like the ACA isn't proof that government ran will be better... it's simply proof that people are willing to destroy what was working and claim that the destroyers will do a better job if only they have more money and more power.

That's like CA solving homelessness. "more money, more power and we'll solve homelessness" and there's never been more homelessness or less affordability in CA.