[srik]

For the interested, the original Dōgen zen koan goes something like this — Before I began to practice, mountains were mountains and rivers were rivers. After I began to practice, mountains were no longer mountains and rivers were no longer rivers. Now, I have practiced for some time, and mountains are again mountains, and rivers are again rivers.

[spicymaki]

And Dōgen is quoting a Zen (Chan) Buddhist Qingyuan Weixin [Seigen Ishin].

[ocodo]

I came here looking for this Zen Koan

[topologie]

I believe this is also tied to La Subida del Monte Carmelo from San Juan de la Cruz. I'm oversimplifying, but basically it goes like this:

As San Juan climbs Monte Carmelo, he finds nothing at the base of the monte, then he finds nothing at the middle, but then, at the cusp, he finds Nothing (capital N Nothing).

See the following image for reference: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Monte_Carmelo_Juan_d...

There's quite a bit of parallels between proper "Catholic Mystics" and Zen teachers...

I highly recommend both the San Juan de la Cruz works, in particular Ascent of Mount Carmel and The Dark Night, along with The Cloud of Unknowing, which was an inspiration for him.

For those curious about learning more about Koans, I cannot recommend this other book highly enough: https://www.amazon.com/Two-Zen-Classics-Gateless-Records/dp/...

The book contains a collection of Koans along with Mumon's (et al) Commentary, Mumon's Verse, as well as modern day notes that help us understand some of the concepts hidden behind what looks like "poetical nonsense" at first, as well as giving the context for historical and mythological figures that are mostly unknown for those "outside the loop." What I love about the notes is that they still leave you with the opportunity to explore the koan further, properly, so they don't really take away all the fun.

Example Koan from the book:

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Case 4 The Western Barbarian with No Beard

Wakuan said, "Why has the Western Barbarian no beard?"

Mumon's Comment:

Study should be real study, enlightenment should be real enlightenment. You should meet this barbarian directly to be really intimate with him. But saying you are really intimate with him already divides you into two.

Mumon's Verse:

Don't discuss your dream before a fool. Barbarian with no beard Obscures clarity.

NOTES (abridged)

- The Western Barbarian: The Western Barbarian stands for Bodhidharma, who brought Zen to China from India. He is always depicted with a beard. The case therefore means, "Why doesn't Bodhidharma, who has a beard, have no beard?"

- Meet this barbarian directly: This is not really a meeting but a becoming. You should yourself become Bodhidharma. Then if you have a beard, Bodhidharma has a beard; if you have no beard, then neither had Bodhidharma. But can you say that you are in truth Bodhidharma?

[...]

- Obscures clarity: Words, concepts, and other inventions of the mind only obscure the truth. Do not cling to shadows, but catch hold of truth itself.

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You get the idea.

Enjoy!