[benjaminwootton]

I would encourage you to look at recruiters more as partners or as an unpaid sales team. They are out there speculatively busting their ass and building relationships with buyers.

I run my own business and would pay 10% commission in exchange for qualified opportunities all day long.

[sirsinsalot]

Except most recruiters are not working in your interest. Only their own. They'll push down your pay to increase their margin. This is particularly true in contracting.

Not all work on transparent commissions, at least here in the UK that's rare.

They are, by and large, talentless liars and cheats with a false narrative and harmful practice.

Seeing them as anything other than hostile to your interests is a quick way to get ripped off by these hacks.

Source: I consult for them on technical screening processes.

[em-bee]

as long as my pay is according to my needs and expectations, i don't care how much of a cut the recruiter makes. the company i work for is getting ripped off just as much as i am. otherwise if the pay is not enough, don't take the job.

the worst that can happen is that the recruiter misrepresents your skills and experience. that can easily be solved by sharing your CV directly with the hiring company. if the recruiter doesn't allow you to do that, then it's a red flag.

[sirsinsalot]

Believe me that's not the worst that can happen.

Ive seen people work for a year at a lowish rate, then be denied a rate increase.

Only to find out later the increase was authorised but the recruiter took it and lied to the worker about it be accepted.

This, sadly, isn't at all uncommon. I see it constantly.

They'll risk your security, reputation and income for quick results to hit their quotas for bonuses.

[Silhouette]

Only to find out later the increase was authorised but the recruiter took it and lied to the worker about it be accepted.

If an increase was requested by the worker and authorised by the client and then the recruiter just plain lied about it and took the money - how is that not plain old fraud?

[sirsinsalot]

Well, they were never contracted to be honest. The only way any party would know about the deception would be to conspire... Something explicitly forbidden by quite a few contracts where recruiters are middle men.

Note, they did conspire... Eventually. Next rate increase, I was in the room when client and contractor alternately took calls from the recruiter on speaker phone.

Everyone was shocked at the outcome.

The client ended up buying the contractor out of the recruiters exclusivity.

[em-bee]

ok, but why are they still involved at that point? shouldn't a recruiter get out of the picture once the connection is made? if they are still involved after that then they are an employment agency. you get good and bad ones there too. but my contract should make it clear which one it is.

[sirsinsalot]

Yes but when contracting, that's how it is structured much of the time.

[em-bee]

yes, that makes sense. however i call that staffing, not recruiting. recruiting should always lead to a direct hire by the client company.

i guess the important part for any job seeker is to know the distinction and be aware of the benefits and downsides of each. and when talking to a recruiter to make clear which one this is.

staffing agencies have their place and can be an advantage in some situations. depending on what you are looking for. in the US in particular they may be able to provide continuous insurance (just a guess, i don't actually know). another advantage may be permanent employment with the agency. (again, i don't know how this is in the US, but due to stronger labor protection it is more likely in germany.)

when you are employed with a staffing agency, it is clear that they are responsible for your salary, and whatever they may be able to negotiate with the client is only incidentally related. you have to consider that they take a risk. if the client defaults or they don't have work for you they may still pay you (again at least in germany they have to).

when i hire that is the way i'd like to operate, but mainly because i want to build my own team and only offer staffing services only as an alternative to doing projects as an agency. i like to give them a fixed monthly salary, and when i have no client work for them i have internal projects they can work on. (which is the point, to earn enough money so that we can spend part of the time on our own products). but that requires that i take a large cut on what i get from the employees work. and any raise they get is based on their overall performance and not on what i can negotiate with a particular client.

the above example seems to be the result of a misunderstanding of what the role of the recruiter here is. (and it may well be the recruiters fault for misrepresenting that)

so again, when talking to a recruiter, make that relationship clear up front and get it in writing if need be, or bail out if the contract is not with who you expect it to be.

[ivandenysov]

What an unexpected ending.

[sirsinsalot]

I'm not above taking their money

[poisonborz]

I am speaking out of longtime experience and can confirm what the other replier here said. Rent-seeking without end, catering to companies that are too busy/lazy/incapable of attracting quality talent themselves. They just look for some keywords and have very superficial knowledge of the industry.

(disclaimer, even if obvious: sure, there are some honest good independent recruiters there, I met them as well)

[bitwize]

"If you're not paying you're not the customer, you're the product" is as true of crooters as it is of Google and Meta.

[codingdave]

Yeah, but in this case that is deliberate. You are absolutely the product. Recruiters are selling you to the buyer. That is exactly the point.