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by jaggederest
732 days ago
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You don't need constant draw though. My numbers are based on actual grid usage of a power plant, not the idea that all powerplants have 100% coverage 24/7. It's designed to replace the existing usage of a half gigawatt peaking plant. Zero of them run at midnight, most only run for shoulder hours in Cali/Texas. They're the majority of the new generation being planned right now, so if the drop-in costs are less, they'll be replaced with solar. As the costs further go down, more and more plants and base generation will be replaced with solar. I expect solar to get cheap enough that e.g. thermal sand storage starts to be viable, which will use essentially the same infrastructure as a nuclear plant but without the NRC approval, radiation safety controls, and backup infrastructure. > I've never been able to find a way to square an actual "no fossil fuels grid" with the supposed cheapness of solar or wind - it always feels like people are quoting selectively useful $/GW values and then not giving a full accounting of the assumptions behind them - i.e. GW type quotes originate with thermal powerplants which have capacity factors which are essentially "whatever you want if you pay us". I'm telling you right now that LCoE for replacing natural gas is here. Coal has been dead for a while, new hydroelectric plants have massive siting concerns, wind is already too expensive compared to solar + battery, oil has been dead this entire century for electricity. What else is left? Only marginal things like geothermal which are entirely location-based. https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=61424# The grid will be solar. Very soon, in fact. Within 20 years, which is lightning fast in grid terms. |
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But that's a utility being injected into a grid which already has widespread stored-fuel powerplants. I'm not contesting batteries work under some circumstances, I'm contesting whether they actually work when they are doing more then displacing load-handling at the edge. The grid runs 24/7: there's a massive difference between running batteries for 2 hours, and then recharging because you can buy power any time of the day you want, versus their being near zero dispatchable generation on the grid.
Because a gas generator is more then happy to sell you power and run a little longer to do so at any time of day. If that gas generator doesn't exist though, then once your battery is empty it's empty until the renewables pick back up. And that's the answer I'm still not seeing - the question isn't "can you optimize the grid" the question is "can you eliminate stored-fuel power plants entirely". It's fairly obvious that batteries can help in some circumstances given that gas plants have start up times in the tens of minutes, and power prices going negative is bad for them.
EDIT: Basically, are we actually displacing any fossil fuels off the grid, or just optimizing it's expansion - given that an infrequently used peaker plant can become a frequently used peaker plant quite easily, but a solar farm can't do the same.