[lucumo]

It is better for everyone, and it does not devalue child-rearing at all.

It is better for the family: - it has more resources - it has more income diversification

It is better for the father: - he doesn't have to carry the weight of income-gathering alone

It is better for the mother: - she doesn't have to carry the weight of child-rearing alone - if things go sour, she can maintain herself and/or the family financially - sha has more choices in life

It is better for the child: - they get a wider variety of experiences - they socialize with other kids earlier, which helps in early school-life - they learn to socialize with more adults too - there are professionals who have seen many children, who will notice problems before the parents will

It is better for the childcare professional: - they have another job choice, helping them pick a job they enjoy

It is good for society: - father, mother and childcare professional can do something that matches their talents, instead of doing something suboptimal for them, thus delivering more value to society

It doesn't devalue child-rearing, it values it more, by having a professional help do it.

I'm always befuddled by that argument. I'm not devaluing plumbing work by hiring a plumber, nor am I devaluing medical work by hiring a doctor. Why would I be devaluing child-rearing by hiring a professional to help?

[pton_xd]

Half those arguments could be made for child labor. After all, if the child works too then the family has more resources, the father and mother don't have to carry all the weight, the child gets a wider variety of experiences, the father and mother can do something that matches their talents while the child picks up the slack. Right?

Who actually cares more about a child's well-being, an employee paid by the hour or their own parents?

[lucumo]

I would not say that the child gets a wider variety of experiences in child labor compared to child care. Child care is explicitly designed to have a variety of activities for children. Child labor is the low skill kind with lots of repetitive actions. Child care also takes the child's needs into account, like having nap times and eating times designed around children, instead of around a production process.

As for caring about the child's well-being? The parents, which is why they should hire the best people they can afford to do various parts of taking care off them. Hire the best doctor for their medical care, hire the best dentists for their dental care, hire the best teachers for their education, hire the best child-care professionals for daycare.

[cfeduke]

For all these "it is better" points, it still doesn't even begin to outweigh the "you get to spend time with your children" point. This is the most important part of child rearing and once they've moved on you'll be thankful you spent your time with them instead of... whatever all that income/societal optimization stuff is. You get to raise your children once.

[Skinney]

Who is 'you' in this context?

If one parent is working, the other home with the kids, chances are that the one working can't take as much time off or has a harder time setting a healthy work-life balance (increasing your pay requires working harder).

Using myself as an example: the only reason I can pick up my kid early from the kindergarten and spend quality time with him is because I can afford to not work 9-5 every day due to my wife also working.

[refurb]

Not sure I’d apply your situation to every parent.

[levanten]

As most things it is a balancing act. Children also need to socialize and learn to operate in a social setting independently from their parents. Day cares have an important role in this aspect in our nuclear family based societies. Confining children to be paired to their parents all the time is also not going to be good for their development.

[lucumo]

I guess you missed the part where I said that it is better for the child. Reducing my argument to "income/societal optimization stuff" is arguing in bad faith.

[chongli]

You haven’t addressed the elephant in the room: housing.

Housing costs have risen to match the switch to double income households. Now instead of 1, it takes 2 incomes just to be able to afford housing. This makes the family more brittle since if either parent loses their job both will lose the house.

And with the rise in housing costs people move further afield. Commuting times go way up and people waste more time in the car or on the train. Everybody ends up more stressed than ever before and further behind economically (compared to those whose wealth grows without working).

[refurb]

Ehhh… better for the kid? Kids can get plenty of social interactions and variety with a stay at home parent.

Plus they get the benefit of time with parents, parents can focus on doing things they think is valuable for the kid.

To somehow claim that childcare comes at no cost for kids is naive.

[lucumo]

> Kids can get plenty of social interactions and variety with a stay at home parent.

The keyword there is "can". They can, it's just less likely. Especially when a parent takes the "stay at home" part too literal.

> To somehow claim that childcare comes at no cost for kids is naive.

Well, my experience with my kids was that their daycare was beneficial for them. They did not always want to go, but they definitely enjoyed all their days there. And especially for the first one, they had a lot of experiences that my wife and I would never have even considered as an option.

Comparing them to their classmates when school started, they were way ahead in lots of things. Absolutely in language development, socialization and being able to focus. They were also just way less, for lack of a better term, worried about everything. They knew that the world does not revolve around mommy and daddy, and that they'd be fine in new environments.

[refurb]

I'm not sure I'd use your kids alone as a representation of the experience of day care for the entire population.

And you're only counting the benefits of daycare, but ignoring the opportunity cost of less time with parents and the benefits that come from that.

I don't disagree that there are benefits to daycare, but where is the optimum? A few hours a day? Or the kids in daycare from 8am to 6pm, so they see their parents for maybe 2 hours a day before bed time?