[ryandrake]

To me, this seems like a good sign that maybe the US norm of workaholism is finally on the decline and workers are starting to set boundaries. Work is a financial exchange of labor for money. "Super engagement" is not necessarily part of that exchange. IMO save your super-engagement for your family, your hobbies, your church, service to your community, and so on. Lifetimes are limited, how much of your soul-hours should you be spending on making some shareholders you've never met rich?

[ryanackley]

Engagement at work and engagement in the rest of your life are not mutually exclusive things. Especially in the tech industry. We are some of the most well-paid, pampered people in the history of work.

I've been doing this for over 20 years and if you counted the number of days I worked on a weekend or more than 8 hours, it would probably add up to less than a month.

[dogman144]

This is why employees advocating RTO for the socialization depress me. There’s a big world out there, go find it.

[nostrebored]

You will spend a substantial chunk of your life working. Likely a plurality of your time alive as an adult. Wanting it to be socially rewarding is reasonable.

[dogman144]

With WFH, you get social reward from people who aren’t forced to be there with you, from the sources parent comment mentioned. Conversely, many don’t find that forced socialization you advocate for remotely rewarding and have to suffer through it for the minority that do like it.

Again - a majorly depressing blind spot for the RTO crowd, or the RTO crowd devalues/dislikes their families and communities I guess?

Edit - touched the usual nerve, but it’s the truth and I’ll leave it at this: Work involves people, but not forced friendships and community, in the same way leadership involves people but not friendship. People who expand past that at work tend to get burned and used by management, and have the blindspots I note, IME. People who instead expand into their families and communities don’t. And yes, you can build these community social bonds without slacking at work either. Such a false equivalency.

[scottLobster]

I have an infant and a toddler, and a house small enough that I don't get a private office (I've cobbled together a DIY cubicle off to the side of a main living area).

Suffice it to say it's hard to focus on intellectually demanding work when a 2-year-old is throwing a fit because her juice box ran empty.

And I honestly don't mind my co-workers, we have a fair bit in common. It's nice to get some regular social exposure outside of kids + spouse, even if it is mostly surface-level.

[dontparticipate]

So you're spending time with your families and communities instead of working during the day then. That thing you're calling "forced socialization" has another name. It's called work. Your ability to have conversations with your coworkers and customers about your work is in fact part of most jobs that involve developing products. Most of us making over $200k don't just pull the code lever at the code factory all day and if your idea of what work in software is doesn't involve people, you've put a permanent ceiling on your career.

[dogman144]

Somehow, I manage to work, have an ambitious career ahead of my peers, clear said-pay, pull the ol’ code lever at the code factory as it were… I.e “work and advance,” while seeing my spouse consistently from 9-5 instead of Brad in marketing, and seeing my community consistently because I buy coffee and lunch in town vs StarQdobaDonalds. That adds up, and I hope you get the chance to experience it as well. And those conversations you mention - nothing that can’t be achieved by Zoom, modern Slack usage, and quarterly off-sites or similar models. No ceiling found yet but maybe depends on what ceiling one counts as mattering. But so far, I haven’t found any yet.

[toomuchtodo]

I would prefer not to be friends with colleagues, with an employer picking a pool of candidates for social relationships.

[asynchronous]

I think that last bit is the key- before US workers swallowed the myth that working harder would translate to better outcomes for the company, and then them overall. But now it’s more clear than ever corporations hoard wealth and do not let improvements trickle down to employees.

[ryandrake]

You know, whenever I see a company big shot giving some "all hands" presentation about how We All Need To Pull Together And Work Hard To Make This A Record Quarter, I can't help but think to myself, "Dude, your stock net worth just increased by $5 million in the last hour of you simply standing there, -existing- behind that podium. That's likely more money than I'll ever see in my entire life. Why exactly are you telling me to work hard and be so 'super engaged' as OP put it?"

[sfmz]

Absurd value capture at the top, while everyone beneath is an instantly fire-able cog. If you do stay relevant there's age-ism to deal with after 40.

[orev]

For many tech people, their hobby just happens to be something that also pays well when you do it for a company. So the super-engagement at work and hobbies is actually the same thing.