[josevalim]

Thanks for the link. This is my fault because the sentence is ambiguous. Where it tries to explain that "you need to remember to perform auth checks both", it rather means that you need to protect controller routes and LiveView routes the same way, but for a single LiveView, you don't need to do both. I will try to clarify it!

If you have other footguns in mind, feel to shot me an email at jose dot valim on gmail!

[elbasti]

Hi José, thank you for the reply. I hope I didn't come across as critical of the incredible work the elixir (and LV) teams have done. You are all absolute treasures to the programming ecosystem.

I think you'll find that my argument ("LiveView shouldn't be the default way of doing things") is fairly common.

It's not necessarily about the footguns (or lack thereof), or improving the docs: it's about there being a shared vocabulary among people that do web development that LiveView is alien to.

Web frameworks have historically been great tools to drive adoption of programming languages (Ruby/Rails, react/ts). The same could be true of Elixir.

However, in order for that to obtain, the learning curve can't be too steep, at least in the initial portions of it. I think you'll find that with LV the learning curve looks like a step, and imho that step is a bit too high.

Of course, all these arguments apply both at the individual level and the company/org level. Think about a new hire's time-to-productivity if they first have to learn elixir, then phoenix + liveview vs just elixir & MVC phoenix.

If there's a way I could contribute to an effort that helps people learn elixir sans lv--perhaps writing, sketching, or even reading a guide/documentation--I'd be happy to give it a crack.

[josevalim]

Hi elbasti, sorry for the late reply. I didn't find your comment critical at all. I appreciate the feedback, especially when it allows us to improve things.

We should always improve the learning curve, regardless of its steepness! Any work in this direction is always welcome. I don't have anything in mind at the moment but if you do stumble upon anything, feel free to PR. :)

[crenwick]

I really appreciate that you took the time to clarify this. I was surprised by parents comment about needing auth twice but they seemed confident. Honestly worried I have apps with auth gaps!

But what you wrote matches my understanding. I have some routes that are pure LiveView and some that go through controller routes with HTML, and it was clear to me where I needed auth when I made them.