[perihelions]

That's a dehumanizing system. Have we lost our way, HN? Are we so immersed in the bleakness of tech, it comes so naturally for us, to propose "hey, let's create surveillance machines to perpetually watch people working, for the rest of their productive lives" and it's something we have to pause and think about?

Let's not build Hell on Earth for whatever reason it momentarily seems to make business sense.

[portaouflop]

Wait so you are saying Hell on Earth would be good for business?

[throwaway173738]

We could make a killing selling companies the software and then again charging “privacy fees” to users. We have a moral duty to our shareholders to do this as soon as possible.

[lobsterthief]

_Synergies rapidly moving into alignment_

[CyberDildonics]

They were talking about logging your own encrypted keystrokes and being in control of them.

This would be dehumanizing? This means 'hacker news has lost their way'?

Logging your own keystrokes and encrypting it is 'bleakness of tech'? This is a 'surveillance machine'?

What are you talking about?

[perihelions]

If you feel compelled to surveil yourself so as not to be arbitrarily fired by an algorithm, I do consider that dystopian; yes. You're not "in control" of data you're expected to turn over to your employer to keep your job. Worse still if these keyloggers become normalized, and they'll shift from being "optional" to "professionally expected" to "mandated".

This (IMHO) is an example of an attempt at a technical solution for a purely social problem—the problem that employers are permitted to make arbitrary firing decisions on the basis of an opaque algorithm that makes untraceable errors. Technical solutions are not the answer to this. There should be legally-mandated presumptions in favor of the worker—presumptions in the direction of innocence, privacy, and dignity.

This stuff's already illegal on several levels, in some of the more pro-worker countries. It's illegal to make hiring/firing decisions solely on the basis of an algorithm output (EU-wide, IIRC?). And in several EU countries it's illegal to have surveillance cameras pointed at workers without an exceptional reason—and it's not something a worker can consent/opt-in to, it's an unwaivable right. I believe—well, I hope—the same laws extend to software surveillance like keyloggers.

[CyberDildonics]

surveil yourself

Surveillance is something you do to someone else. If it's yourself you're just keeping records. It's common that proving validity of something involves the records of it's creation. Is registering for copyright surveillance?

data you're expected to turn over to your employer

If you got paid to make something, that would be your employer's data anyway.

Worse still if these keyloggers become normalized, and they'll shift from being "optional" to "professionally expected" to "mandated"

You think a brainstorm about using a blockchain by a hacker news comment is going to suddenly become 'mandated'?

And in several EU countries it's illegal to have surveillance cameras pointed at workers without an exceptional reason

They described logging their own keystrokes and encrypting them to have control over them. It isn't a camera and it isn't controlled by someone else. Also they said in an editor, so it isn't every keystroke, it would only be the keystrokes from programming.