[throwaway22032]

The author describes precisely my reason for being interested in Bitcoin.

Things which other people seem to readily accept, such as ATM's having limits, the nature of card payments being inherently asymmetric, the middlemen, "know your customer", etc.

All of that stuff just seems insane to me. It's as if someone were standing at my door, telling me that I can't take more than seven items out of my house per day, asking me why I'm moving furniture around, etc.

If you're happy with that stuff, great, stick with it. I'm not.

It is not and never was about "getting rich". That's the side effect of the utility of the system.

[righthand]

How does crypto solve any of that if its future is just more regulation pressing it into the molds of already established systems? I can’t pay my moving guy in crypto, I have to convert it to cash and all that “protection” is easily surmountable.

[throwaway22032]

The problem that Bitcoin aimed to solve was that cash cannot be transferred online. The headline of the whitepaper - "a peer to peer electronic cash system".

You can transfer cash in person by handing someone coins or notes. It might be illegal in some jurisdictions to do that for high amounts or certain items, but it is at least physically possible i.e. permissionless.

Bitcoin is that, but online.

The regulations you are describing affect what are essentially financial institutions operating on top of the system.

The act of sending Bitcoin is permissionless by design.

That's it, that's all it is. Nothing more, nothing less.

[righthand]

But it’s still trackable and not completely anonymous as has been proven time and again. So while Bitcoin claims that the purpose is so rudimentary, the established systems don’t exactly make it true.

[eterpstra]

Different countries have different regulations and differing levels of permeation within society. Nobody in the US will take crypto as payment (other than a few niche retailers), but it's a pretty popular payment option in places like Argentina, Estonia, El Salvador, Vietnam, India, Singapore, and Nigeria. So popular in Nigeria, in fact, that it's displacing the local currency and the government is (unsuccessfully) trying to ban p2p transactions.

[pavlov]

I’ve been to Estonia a lot, and have never seen any retail business that would accept crypto.

I’m sure there’s a niche somewhere. But when you say “pretty popular payment option”, it sounds like it’s a rival to Visa and Mastercard, and that prices would be listed in crypto instead of euro. That’s absolutely not true.

Re: Nigeria, anecdotally my few friends from the country tell me that the crypto boom is primarily about local influencers promoting their own coins as investments, not actual payments.

[pavlov]

Money isn’t like your house. It’s like the roads and other infrastructure that connects your house to other places.

You can’t drive at 100mph on the wrong side of the road. You can’t mess with the plumbing and electricity in ways that would affect the grid, even if you do it on your own property.

There are of course places in the world that are so empty or so undeveloped that you can make your own rules off-grid. But most people don’t want that because it’s a lot of work and means you’re largely disconnected from others. Bitcoin as a currency has the same problem.

[throwaway22032]

I can transact with people who choose to use it and convert to fiat currency when needed. I have been doing this for over ten years now.

It works. What's the problem?

Are you saying that me merely using Bitcoin endangers others and is akin to driving into oncoming traffic?

edit: Sure, driving into oncoming traffic is bad. So let's criminalize and punish that, rather than banning vehicles because I could drive on the pavement and cause havoc.

[pavlov]

If you do it on your own, it’s like living off-grid and driving your off-road vehicle at whatever speed you like. Go right ahead, nobody is stopping you.

The problem with crypto is where it interacts with the financial system. The exchanges are hives of scum and villainy. Criminals use it for money laundering and ransomware. That’s the part where you do need to follow the existing rules and laws, whether you like them or not.