[lannisterstark]

>not unlike queer people and the attempts to “fix” them.

To be fair, LGBTQ community isn't 'broken.' Some people are inherently gay, lesbian, etc.

Deafness _is_ an actual defect. The weird thing that we should not strive to fix human defects when they are truly defects is astounding.

[alexey-salmin]

Some people are inherently deaf, what's the difference?

[Veraticus]

Being LGBTQ is not a disability or handicap; it’s simply different, like being red-haired or left-handed.

[geraldwhen]

If you feel compelled to remove parts of your body and take opposite sex hormones for life, that’s clearly a disability.

If genes could fix your brain to not feel compelled to swap sexes, that would be a huge win in the quality of life for most individuals.

You can pretend that pretty much anything “isn’t a disability, it’s just different.” But that isn’t true.

[seattle_spring]

You're focusing pretty hard on a single letter of that acronym that makes up a small percentage of the overall community.

[alexey-salmin]

What makes you think that deafness is not the same as being left-handed?

I mean objectively, not based on the current cultural norms which will be very different 50 years from now.

[Veraticus]

“Objectively,” left-handed versus right-handed changes nothing about a person’s capabilities in the world, whereas being deaf does.

Cultural norms is an interesting comparison. Despite there being no actual difference in capacity, cultural views forced many left-handed people to be right-handed, making those people miserable in the process for no good reason.

[rjh29]

You can't procreate, that sounds like a pretty big difference in capacity?

[Drakim]

Gay people can obviously procreate, nothing about your body stops functioning when you are gay.

What you mean is that they don't have sexual attraction towards people of an opposite gender, where if they had a relationship with them, that relationship would encourage procreation.

To me that just doesn't seem like a "difference in capacity".

I personally don't want children, and will probably seek out a partner who likewise does not want children. If I encounter somebody who wants lots of children, I will see that we have different life goals, and I probably won't be very keen on being in a relationship with them. Do you consider me "damaged" or of "diminished capacity" because of it?

[herbst]

Interestingly enough it was still common to train left handed kids in right handed writing up until maybe 40 years ago as it was seen as some kind of defect obviously.

[ben_w]

> “Objectively,” left-handed versus right-handed changes nothing about a person’s capabilities in the world,

As a leftie, this is only true in the current world — I live in a culture with a left-to-right writing system, and yet technology means I don't ever need to use a fountain or quill pen.

I did have one teacher who insisted on "no biro" when I was a kid, but they were also my first introduction to "not everyone is actually nice".

[alexey-salmin]

Being deaf is surely different from not being deaf but you can't objectively say it's a disadvantage. It's only a disadvantage in a world built for not deaf people, like being left-handed is a disadvantage in a world built for right-handed people.

[Veraticus]

I can and did say that. The world is easier for non-deaf people. I can’t imagine even many deaf people would argue against that statement.

The correct way to argue against this isn’t to say that “objectively” the world is the same for deaf and non-deaf people; it’s that there’s a culture and language bound up in deafness that don’t deserve to die thanks to medical advances. That is true, and makes treatments like these and what they mean to the deaf community much more complicated and difficult.

[PierceJoy]

It’s a disadvantage in the “built” world, but it’s also a disadvantage in the natural world. If you drop a deaf person in the middle of the forest with no one around, they will not be able hear rivers for water, they will not be able to hear animals approaching, etc.

Being deaf is objectively a disadvantage because 4 senses is objectively worse than 5 senses.

[RamblingCTO]

How do you hear predators approaching? It's an objective disadvantage.

[sweezyjeezy]

This feels a bit tenuous. What world do you envisage where it's a completely level playing field? Do we ban talking, music, sound in movies etc etc??

[stahtops]

Let me help explain, some left handed people can hear and are not deaf. Objectively that is how deafness is not the same as being left-handed.

[alexey-salmin]

Well thank you, but the question is why one needs "fixing" and the other doesn't. Parent comment made an argument that being gay is like being left-handed so it doesn't need "fixing". That's fine with me, but I don't see how the same logic doesn't apply to deafness.

Many deaf people enjoy their life as it is and don't welcome your attempts to "fix" them.

[stahtops]

I didn’t attempt to “fix” anyone. Everyone has to do that themselves.

What about the deaf people that don’t enjoy their life as it is and do welcome the opportunity to hear?