[kragen]

> China has enormous potential in terms of electronics manufacturing.

this is like saying 'south africa has enormous potential in terms of diamond mining' or 'the us has enormous potential in terms of mass shootings'. china had enormous potential in terms of electronic manufacturing 30 years ago. today, electronics manufacturing outside of china is a footnote. an increasing number of manufacturers don't bother to produce non-chinese-language datasheets. in this context, if a chip's availability in china is sketchy, that's reason to question its viability

the hackaday article does start with talking about stm32 counterfeits but is mostly about legitimate clones, most of which are improvements over st's chips

[dragontamer]

I dunno why you're so focused on trying to make China look better. It's well acknowledged by pretty much everyone that supply chains in China have a counterfeit problem.

There are pretty much two solutions. Either you more closely handle supply chain issues yourself by buying from the OEM or reputable sources (which increases costs). Or you accept the counterfeits as good enough. Based on this discussion, you've gone with the second option which is fine. But it's something people should know about your argument.

You CANNOT compare prices in the way you've been doing in your argument. That's all I'm saying.

When we compare OEM ATMega328pb vs AVR64DD32, the OEM prices for AVR DD is cheaper. That's the ground truth.

The methodology you've chosen as the basis of your argument is not accounting for the huge, well known risks of counterfeit ATMega328.

[kragen]

you have me confused with someone else; i haven't compared any prices in this thread

i agree that there's a counterfeit problem, and it's worse in china, but that's irrelevant to my argument

i don't think it makes sense to say that i'm trying to make china look better. you're painting a pants-on-head absurd picture of china's role in electronics manufacturing, apparently taken from some kind of incredible propaganda. i'm just giving you the basic facts that everyone agrees on but you don't know yet

[dragontamer]

The issue here is ATmega328 pricing vs AVR DD pricing. Which is the crux of the discussion.

The pricing estimates discussed earlier have to be factored against the well known, widespread counterfeits. Especially because ATMega328 is a well known counterfeited chip, and the Chinese market well known for being full of not only counterfeits in general, but even counterfeits of this specific chip under discussion.

You cannot compare chip prices like the poster did earlier. And all this Chinese vs whatever discussion you're trying to distract me with aside doesn't change the core fact.

[kragen]

i think the pricing is a mostly irrelevant detail, actually, which is why i didn't mention it. what's relevant is availability

you're right that availability of counterfeits isn't real availability, but i think you're vastly exaggerating the seriousness of that problem. a more likely reason for chinese distributors lowering their prices for the atmega328 is that it's not appealing for new designs, so they need to offload their leftover inventory