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by solids 741 days ago
Maybe the housing crisis is related to the lack of legal security that owners have, which severely reduced the offer and obviously increased the prices.

The housing law that the current government passed wasn’t very clever…

2 comments

Wait so lack of legal security reduced supply... by what mechanism? How do you think this works?
Your apartment is being squatted and you're selling it at a discount, not being prepared to navigate the legal landscape. The buyers evict the squatters, fix it up and list it at a higher than market price. They do this as a commercial enterprise.
Why would you build new housing when someone can waltz in and change the locks and youre shit out of luck?
That logic also applies to demand. Why would you buy a house if someone can waltz in and...

It's very much not in evidence that this is affecting supply more than demand.

> That logic also applies to demand. Why would you buy a house if someone can waltz in and...

The clear answer is you'd buy one if you know how to handle squatters. In other words, you are well connected and have enough capital to take preventive measures described in the article.

In other words, rich can get richer by having lengthy security apparatus to protect their property. Middle class investors, who might want to buy an extra house to have a stream of income from rents gets that ladder pulled away from them.

One might believe that renting itself should not exist and making money from housing is immoral. If so, let's pull that ladder away from everyone including the rich (though that won't end well since not everyone can be a homeowner).

> Why would you build new housing when someone can waltz in and change the locks and youre shit out of luck?

The clear answer is you'd build one when you know how to handle squatters.

> If so, let's pull that ladder away from everyone including the rich

Yes!

> not everyone can be a homeowner

Why?

> > not everyone can be a homeowner

> Why?

Criminals who were behind the bars for 20 years, just came out and have nothing to buy a house with.

Families moving to another city for 1-2 years because one of the parents found a lucrative job assignment (I literally have some extended family members in this situation).

People who declared bankruptcy recently and cannot have any assets in their name by definition.

Grad students who are in a university town only for 1-2 years (I was one and I know dozens of my classmates who were in the similar situation).

and on and on. Society is just too complex to make everyone a homeowner. Lot of people need to rent.

You wouldnt, which is why no one is building houses. People still need somewhere to live though.
Pal, you don't understand how the market, or even real life, works.
Given as of 2020 the US had 580,000 homeless, the market does not work.
You were downvoted but you're hitting the nail on the head.

The housing problem is an issue of supply and demand. Currently demand is bigger than supply and that leads to problems, no matter what you do. Either renting prices go up until many people can't afford to rent anymore, or if some law is put into place such as restricting rents or reducing owners' rights, supply will become even smaller and demand even bigger.

To solve the housing crisis the government has to either decrease demand or increase supply, or both.

In Spain there are lots of empty apartments, from the bubble and IIRC are more than 2 million empty , but prices are still going up, most of the market is on the hands of foreign funds who are emptying the cities with their prices. There's a lot of speculation with housing in Spain. Not to talk about the campaign in the media about squatting, sowing fear continuously. The supply is artificially being held by the owners.
Then the government should make it less attractive for speculators to hold those homes, e.g. by introducing taxes for empty properties. And on the other hand they could make it more attractive for them to rent them out, e.g. by improving owner's rights.
The problem imho is that a lot of people, not only "the very rich" but also some very "middle class" people/families, have access and can make use of houses as investment vehicles, but houses (aka shelter) is also a primary need for humans. If you hold share of a publicly traded company, you can hold it forever until you think somebody can accept to buy it from you at a price that you like, hoping to make a profit if such price is high enough, and nobody will suffer from this process. But with houses, there is always somebody in absolute need for it, which means that either they will accept to rent it to a price that covers extra taxes applied by the state to you (as a landlord), or they will try to squat if they can not. It's really hard to enforce the right set of disincentives that are wide enough to convince people not to "hold" but at the same time does not apply to too many people but mostly the ones that are using houses as investments.

The whole thing is complicated by being geographically unequal: for example I think even Spain is full of affordable houses, only they are not in Madrid or Barcelona or Valencia, which is where people really want to live. So if you have a second house in an unpopular town you actually have not much - thus you are not rich - and you have often an empty house (nobody wants to rent/buy it) which is an easy target for squatters, and therefore you will become "one of the poor people ruined by squatters", while othen you are somebody who accepted the narrative that using houses as investment was a good idea, both an investment house cheaply in a town that never attracted enough people, thus "lost the game" and is now also losing the house to squatters...

> The problem imho is that a lot of people, not only "the very rich" but also some very "middle class" people/families, have access and can make use of houses as investment vehicles, but houses (aka shelter) is also a primary need for humans.

As an example, we bought our house for $280k in Iowa seven years ago. It held steady for a bit, but jumped up to close to $400k shortly after Covid. YIMBY policies in my area could cost me as much as $120k of wealth that I now possess. What percentage of home owners are going to willingly give up tens to hundreds of thousands of dollars in wealth to support more equitable housing? Even for a liberal, $120k is a hell of a lot of money and it's only growing year after year under our current system. With that equity continuing to grow, maybe I have some hope of retiring in the future? That's a hell of a lot to put on an individual to ask them to support more equitable housing. Other people's suffering is their only chance to not suffer constantly until they die. And when you think in terms of not just my suffering but my family suffering, it becomes a lot easier to slip into NIMBYism.

How do you decouple primary housing from investment without fucking over literally millions of homeowners who have done the best they can under the existing rules? It's something I'm personally interested in. But I also don't want to be working until the day I die. What is the compromise that satisfies the majority of people?

The most building would do is cool off the market and limit future gains. I believe only a proper economic crash is capable of smashing prices at this point.
End foreign owned property, tax vacant property harshly, and offer discount loans to first time owners... there are plenty of options to reduce the pressure on the unhoused. Your house isn't a business and does not continuously create value for the community, why should you be guaranteed profits and have advantage over everyone that cones after you?
> e.g. by introducing taxes for empty properties

So the speculators set up a company, buy the property and list it on AirBnB at several times the market price. Now it's not an empty property, it's a business. Business is slow so they only have to bother with guests during spikes in demend.

To get around this, we'll establish complex municipal regulations around AirBnB, with steeply escalating punitive fines.

https://airbtics.com/airbnb-regulation-in-barcelona/

And then you list it illegally anyhow.
Introducing speculator taxes and then making it more attractive to be a speculator (landlord) just means that speculators pass the speculator taxes on to renters.

Letting people get rich off holding people's basic needs for ransom is never going to be part of the solution to homelessness.

A tax on empty properties can't be passed onto renters.
It is when its passed onto their landlord when a new landlord buys it to rent it out.