[wvenable]

> The word you are looking for is subjectively. Objective measures need to be specific.

If you're going to be pedantic, you should at least try and be correct. Objective just means based on facts where subjective is based on opinions or feelings. Just because I didn't enumerate all the ways in which those technologies are objectively terrible, doesn't mean they are not.

> Although, if Konquerer had implemented its own Flash renderer back in the day, there is a decent chance that Flash would have won in the end.

But even if that was the case, we'd still be using JavaScript.

> Flash failed only because there was, for all intents and purposes, only a single implementation

...and that implementation was terrible. Full of security flaws, bugs, and insufficient investment from Adobe. But a single closed-source implementation is also a perfectly good reason why it objectively terrible as well.

> The browser has fallen quite short of any kind of success in that regard.

If Apple was not specifically crippling browser potential on their platforms, it might be more. But either way, the actual success of the iPhone was entirely based on the browser (the first version didn't even have apps). The web is what makes any alternative operating system viable today -- whether that OS is iOS, Mac OS, Android, WebOS, ChromeOS, Linux, etc.

[randomdata]

> Objective just means based on facts where subjective is based on opinions or feelings.

Indeed, and the assertion made was based on opinion or feeling. There is no objectivity in the assertion.

> But a single closed-source implementation is also a perfectly good reason why it objectively terrible as well.

While I must share in your opinion, this again is not measured objectively. You just got finished defining the word... It is quite likely that at least someone at Adobe enjoyed it being a single closed-source implementation for a long, long time. "Terrible" is always an opinion.

> the first version didn't even have apps

Incorrect. While it did not support third-party apps (officially, at least; it didn't take long to see them added unofficially), the device was chock full of apps written by Apple.