[INTPenis]

I don't get it. People around me have been saying Google is shit for years now but I can't see it.

I still reach for google for any minor query, and it's super responsive and it's super helpful.

Yes of course I am aware that for certain queries you get a lot of results that have manipulated their way to the top. I just think I have a very good natural bullshit-filter.

[barnabee]

I don’t like the company and stopped using Google search over 5 years ago. I don’t miss it or even notice its absence.

I have to remind myself Google is a massive part of many people’s experience of the internet.

[INTPenis]

Which company is better?

When it comes to that level of data and maturity I think there is no valid competition.

I've consciously made the decision that I don't care what Google does with my data. They're going to attempt to track me regardless of if I use their services or not. I have friends who live off grid to get away from internet tracking but I don't envy their lifestyle.

So I think like most conscious people we just make the decision to willingly hand over whatever data we might be leaking to these companies, just for the convenience. Life is short, and filled with enough suffering, I don't need to inflict it upon myself in my daily routines.

[barnabee]

Kagi is much better for multiple reasons IMO:

1. I pay them, so am not so much the product, from an economic perspective

2. The search results are actually better, for me at least, especially with the customisations it allows

3. They do claim to be free of ads/trackers and care about privacy

4. I see no evidence of them doing the bad things Google do

5. Even if they were just as bad, they are much smaller and it would make sense to me to give my money and attention to them over Google for that reason alone

[disqard]

Like you, I'm a paid Kagi user. I also endorse all of the points you wrote above.

However, there is the uncomfortable truth that Kagi relies on Google search results to power its own infra.

[slau]

Why does a single company have to be better? Fastmail or Migadu for mail, Kagi for search. I still use YT on a semi regular basis.

Just because you’re used to using their products and it’s convenient to use them doesn’t mean there aren’t valid alternatives, or that using those equals “suffering”.

That has to be the most first world rant I’ve seen in a while.

[INTPenis]

I was looking for a new e-mail provider recently and migadu was a top candidate but I can't get over the fact that they price based on number of e-mails received. Isn't that easily exploited? Someone could potentially DoS your account.

We're not that different on a daily basis. I use proton but I'm looking for a new less complicated provider so I can handle all e2ee myself. Posteo.de, migadu or fastmail. I still have my gmail, 20 years now, but it's mostly a spam trap for sign ups on popular services.

I've tried some different search providers like DDG, not Kagi, but nothing compares to Google so far.

And of course I use YT, Premium even because I don't have the energy to participate in the adblocking arms race.

I think the biggest reason I'm still using mostly Google services is eID. Sweden depends a lot on eID and as far as I know it requires a stock Android phone to work. I've heard people getting it working without device integrity, but I just don't have the mental energy to deal with when it might stop working. My focus is on life, enjoying life, not fixing device issues.

So therefore eID drives me to use stock google Android, and then it's just easier to use the rest of the Google ecosystem for calendar, notes, search and so forth.

[slau]

Migadu doesn’t have automated quotas. They are understanding and they won’t block your account because of one bad actor. Even if you go over the limits, they won’t say anything unless it becomes a regular pattern.

I host email for quite a few people, and we’ve never even come close to the limits on my plan, and there’s some people who are very heavy email users.

[tennisflyi]

It's definitely crested and the downslope is just really long

[renegat0x0]

1) How would you be able to detect that Google quality is slipping away?

2) There was a German research that it degraded [1]. I do not remember by how many percents it got worse, but how would you be able to tell that search engine is worse by 8% year by year?

3) Internet just got worse. There are walled gardens everywhere. Access to data has been more restricted for people who do not want to create accounts. Internet is not so tough for people who do not care about their privacy. It is not necessarily that Google search became worse

4) There always been spam, but it just got worse

5) Corporations are becoming more greedy. I have read about SEOs complaining that what has been previously not allowed, now is. Malvertising is more common

6) If Google focuses on big media companies, then small sites do not have revenue. Small sites are closed, and we have Internet without traffic for personal sites. Internet is getting boring if search focuses on big media companies.

7) Google is focusing on 'content', not on 'quality' content. Therefore what is 'new' is more important. Therefore you will be less likely to find a good article from 2011

8) Personal sites are hard to quantify. How would you be able that small domain with one good article is reliable? You don't. That is why Google prefers vice, or bbc news. It is just easier. There are more investor money there, etc. etc.

9) DYI projects, or game formus are tricky. They may contain Nintendo stuff, they may contain ROM files, or other untrustworthy comments. It is easier for search engines to ditch such sites altogether.

10) I am running a web crawler that indexes domains [2]. Let me assign you a task. Find interesting domains about "Amiga" using google search. How many domains you will find? I have more than 200 domains. Sure "Amiga" is a niche keyword, however that makes me wonder if I am just as inexperienced with Google search, or if Google in fact is a Potemkin Village for folks living in Matrix.

Links:

[1] https://mashable.com/article/google-search-low-quality-resea...

[2] https://github.com/rumca-js/Internet-Places-Database

[mcphage]

> I just think I have a very good natural bullshit-filter.

That's not really sufficient, though—there have been things I've searched for, and every result on the first few pages was bullshit. The problem was not that they weren't clearly bullshit, the problem was that there was no non-bullshit to find instead. At least, not buried deep in the bowels. When I'm just looking up a quick fact, I have a limit to how many worthless links I'm going to follow.

But also: how "super responsive and [...] super helpful" is it being, if to get your information, you need to figure out when what it's giving you is a lie? "It gives me great information because I know when it's lying" doesn't seem very helpful, versus something that... y'know, doesn't send you to lies.

[andrewflnr]

That's great for you, but we used to not need as much bullshit-filter. Why does Google make me wade through easily filterable bullshit when it used to put the right results at the top?