[g00z]

I'm curious if these problems are more about flexibility.

Because I find with any well designed and flexible program in a statically typed language, you end up with the same "tube of something" as you have in your dynamic language examples.

Take any large generic framework in rust, the types are extremely generic, dispatching on more generic traits. It's hardly a tag that says: "blood, to heart" unless it is highly coupled and working in one area.

[hello_computer]

> generic framework

Yet at some point, the template is instantiated--in the text!--and you can fill-in-the-blank by reading instead of having to do a runtime probe. For large systems that have a lot of preconditions, the "runtime probe" approach can be a thick fat time-waster (i.e. caressing the program into a state where something is even in the tube).

[g00z]

But do you really think the runtime probe is less effective in an environment where you have a good way of interacting with the program at runtime? Or is it just bad tools tainting the experience?

Because I find that in a good dynamic environment, it's easier to figure out how to use something complex when compared to trying to uncover how and why the types line up.

The absolute extreme being something like smalltalk, where you just guess how it should be used and then fix it in the debugger until it works.

[The_Colonel]

> But do you really think the runtime probe is less effective in an environment where you have a good way of interacting with the program at runtime?

No matter the tool, it will be very difficult to try out all code paths to figure out what can be in that tube. The difficulty scales with the size / age of the application.

Take your typical 20 years old enterprise application. Nobody from the original team is around. Whole generations of programmers worked on the project, each with their own favorite patterns / code style / level of diligence. There's a massive amount of features, half of which you don't even know about. Test coverage is spotty at best. You see some common function triggered from hundreds of places, it makes a huge difference in your ability to reason about it if you have types on the data being processed or not.