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by racional 745 days ago
True, and utterly deplorable of course.

But we have to keep in mind that none of those people would be forced to live in such inhospitable places were it not for the bold, decisive actions of that man who got an airport named after him.
1 comments
tptacek 745 days ago
... or, as we've talked about before, the bold, decisive actions of people throughout every MENA country who expelled their own Jewish populations in the wake of the 1948 war --- those specific people are the core of the right wing in Israel.
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racional 745 days ago
Hate to point this out -- but this really is just whataboutism, here.

The MENA expulsions (which we have already acknowledged) didn't have anything to do either with Nakba '48 or the expulsions of Palestinians in other countries in subsequent years. Let alone with the topic of subthread we've all jumped in at here. (Which started with the Nakba after all; I didn't introduce it to make some broader moral point).

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tptacek 745 days ago
I thought about what you said. I don't think this is whataboutism. The people most responsible for the policies you most disapprove of in Israel are precisely the people who were victims of reprisal pogroms and ethnic cleansings in other countries.

I don't think my thesis is "Israel is right". My awareness of Israel started with them killing that activist with a bulldozer, and didn't go better places from there. I'm guessing we 80% agree about Israel.

I think my thesis is "no simple argument about Israel or Palestine will ever be true". Which is, to me, kind of fascinating, if you can get past the horror, which I understand people (on both sides) not being able to do. Also: I sound like a Bond villain right now.

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racional 744 days ago
The people most responsible for the policies you most disapprove of in Israel are precisely the people who were victims of reprisal pogroms and ethnic cleansings in other countries.

So ... if Palestinians are still going through what they're going today, at home or abroad, it's ultimately (or to large extent) a delayed result of the MENA expulsions, and the slight electoral tilt among the descendants of those affected (we're talking 2 full generations later, heading up on a 3rd by now) within Israeli electoral politics?

That is to say, ultimately an outgrowth of -- external antisemitism?

That's your thesis here?

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