[DaiPlusPlus]

> If it works don't fix it: we don't need to do any maintenance

My counter argument is “Why don’t you have automated test coverage so you’re free to make maintenance or engineering improvements without fear of breaking things?”

[datatrashfire]

One thing I have noticed with over zealous testers is to get 100% coverage they mock everything and test implementations. Then you end up writing 2x the code to get anything done. I think it's a net negative. I have more often had to rewrite tests in these environments then have them actually save me from shipping a bug.

[thom]

This is why I very heavily favour functional tests or broad use-case based integration tests that are implementation agnostic. Save your highly coupled unit/property based tests for algorithmic code or weird edge cases when things are settled. More generally, even many TDD people advocate “spike then stabilise” as an approach.

[lanstin]

That is such a sweet feeling - doing what you feel is good test suite (maybe not TDD perfectionistic 100%but good) then few months later you add a new feature and the tests find some subtle bug that would have affected production.

[dgfitz]

Because the same engineers that write buggy code write buggy tests?

[CamperBob2]

Why don’t you have automated test coverage so you’re free to make maintenance or engineering improvements without fear of breaking things?

Because that's equivalent to solving the Halting Problem. Even if you could test your way to quality in a non-interactive context, it would never be possible in a system that includes asynchronous human input.

[heavenlyblue]

Just don't make asynchronous human input turing complete, there's plenty of machines for which the halting problem is solvable.

[johnnyanmac]

Good question, ask my entire industry. Games defintiely has logic that isn't easily covered by automated systems, but there's plenty of deterministic code that could be put under test. We rarely get such luxury of time to implement that, though.