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by rulalala 753 days ago
IMHO this is a romantic effort, no one can plant a tree species at such a scale.
4 comments

Sometimes, I just have some view of a city, or whatever, look out, quietly scan the horizon and just muse "every tree I see was planted by someone". Someone said "here, there will be a tree" and it was so.

Small ones, big ones. They're just everywhere.

"See that park over there? Someone put every one of those trees in the ground."

Then, as a corollary, one day, a parking lot has several dozen trees. Next day, they're all gone. Week later, a bunch of new ones are back. Guess the old ones were just getting too big.

Friend recently had to take down a 100 year old tree. Was just getting potentially unsafe.

No doubt they'll stick another one in there, and leave it. It'll be there when they pass.

Given adequate rainfall and the right range of soil acidity trees will seed and grow themselves. This town was farm fields in the 1930s. Some trees were planted when the streets were laid out and houses built. Others, particularly ornamentals, continue to be planted. But there are a great number of trees that are volunteers that have been allowed to mature over the last century. Norway maples, sweet gum, tulip poplar, and red oak are particularly good at volunteering.
We have mullberry, maple, boxelder, and sometimes oak trees that spring up everywhere and basically need to be weeded before they get too big. Mullberry is particularly "weedy", a common sight at the edge of fences or in hedges.
This is definitely an odd take, given the 150+ saplings I pull from my meager backyard every spring. I'm still killing off the root system of some Elm trees that were destroyed in 2021 during the big freeze here in Texas. If I didn't keep that in check I'd have dozens of elms at this point.
There definitely is a weird dichotomy between intentionally planted trees and the ones that just randomly show up. Maple trees grow like dandelions here in the midwest.

Hell I've had a little cottonwood tree growing in the corner of my truck bed for 3-4 years. It never gets any bigger but always produces new leaves every spring.

Get one of those fancy scissors, do some pruning and say you're doing this new thing called truck bonsai
I've had health issues for about 5 years, my back yard is a dense forest because I'm not outside editing it back to my preferences.

Trees definitely do not need us.

>Trees definitely do not need us.

Until they do. Eventually bugs and diseases would kill off huge portions of them. Trees would still be around, but it'd definitely be a different mix than we have now. Right now every ash tree in my state is either dead or dying due to beetles, all the chestnuts died when I was a kid, the native oaks mostly only live where they've been planted because anytime one dies a faster growing maple replaces it.

In a dense cities, the trees you see now that were allowed to grow to maturity were mostly likely planted by a human, with some exceptions of course. Any trees that began to grow organically were probably cut or eliminated.
Many do plant themselves. In my city (Atlanta), slash pine, pecan, tulip poplar and mimosa frequently grow as volunteers and get quite large.
Well put.

It's incredible how our minds are unable to grasp timescales greater than a decade. It dawned on me recently. I visited a place that had trees which were roughly my height 10 years ago. It's a genuine forest now.

Trees are perfectly fine with those timescales. Let them be and they will grow.

Another mind-blown moment was when I was visiting a park in Warsaw. Seemed like old-growth forest - little do I know! There was a display nearby which shared, that during WWII, the Nazis cut the park clear because the opposition was hiding in the trees. That was less than 100 years ago.

We routinely plant over a billion trees each year in the USA. Tree planting is a huge industry. We have tractor attachments that can mass plant some species.
I had a friend who planted trees for a summer job. He said it was good money for a summer job and they got paid something like $0.20/tree.
I saw that on tiktok myself. But apparently only the experts at tree planting make good money and it takes a few seasons to get good.
A country of two million people managed to plant six million trees in one day in 2008

https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE4AI49U/

How many of them survived more than a year?
Many of them. Do you have information about it that the rest of us don't?

"Fifty million trees planted- the government said in 2014- with a success rate of 61% compared to the average European planting success rate of 35%."

> Do you have information about it that the rest of us don't?

No, that's why I asked. I was aware of the less than perfect record elsewhere wondered if they had done better.

i imagine most of them, Macedonia is not such a dangerous place to live. /s
Planting trees results in inferior forests. A healthy forest comes from natural forestation that goes through pioneer species stages.
Inferior forests are better than no forests.

You don’t have to take an empty field and plant 100k trees. You can go to where chestnuts used to grow, have some volunteers plant some over time, say 100 every month in an area. Over the course of 10 years, we’ll get some data.

Don’t let great be the enemy of good.

A healthy forest comes from strict conservation laws, confiscation, expropriation, etc. When land is secured, what to plant is a technical detail.

Achieving a good approximation of pristine natural forests might have a lower priority than the variable needs to increase rare plants, provide an habitat for rare animals, make the forest robust against climate and geological hazards, dealing with people with friendly (e.g. edible fruit) or hostile (e.g. thick vegetation to discourage secret hemp cultivation) features, etc.

So, how many do you imagine need to be planted for the species to be self-sustaining?
I mean surely populations would exist, bit the spatial and cultural significance of the species is gone.

And, for how long do we want to believe that environmental change (including fungus) can be frozen in a specific time moment that should be preserved?

Isn’t all the writing about the American chestnut indicative of some on-going cultural significance?

Wasn’t the blight and panic that wiped them out largely a result of human activity?

I think this is one environmental change that happened VERY fast, in which we see our own hand, and that we believe we might still be able to turn back.

But I sense that you see some down side which I don’t see?

I sympathise with the struggle of losing a major specie, and of course the cultural significance is great and will never fully vanish.

One thing is to protect nature, another to reject somehow inevitable change happening all the time.

A legitimate concern could emerge on discussing whether there is no better plan, because IMHO this plan offered false hopes, and perhaps many such restoration plans provide more hopes than quantitative performance indicators.

> the spatial and cultural significance of the species is gone.

If it's ecologically competitive, it will spread again in the fullness of time, no?

Yain, meaning yes and no, because of shifting baselines and other co-occurring dynamics, perhaps there are other natural and man-made uses already taking place?