[jjice]

I think you're right, but it seems like you get into a tricky territory that'll never be great (as everything with security has compromised). Too long is an issue for attacks, but convenient for users. Too short and you have to do an initial re-auth over and over again, partially defeating the benefits.

Even if the TTL is short, there are plenty of ways to compromise a token and use it immediately in an automated system.

If you're using JWTs, I'd lean shorter TTLs and embrace this as a potential concern. Not sure what the best re-auth frequency is though. I'd be really interested to see other's thoughts on that.

[moomoo11]

But the token is used over SSL and the only way to get it afaik is to hijack the client device or somehow hijack the server. The first scenario is pretty rare and the second is pretty easy to avoid. I don’t think that’s really an edge case that’s concerning for 99% of applications.

[pests]

> the only way to get it afaik is to hijack the client device or somehow hijack the server.

Yet we have millions of passwords in dumps across the internet. Maybe hijacking the client or server is more common than thought?

[moomoo11]

I think you're conflating a few things.

Passwords being leaked is due to noobs and idiots in charge of systems, and probably not using an actual auth provider.

It really isn't that hard.

1. Send secure information over SSL. If some noob-tier dev decides that's too advanced for them, congrats I guess for being stupid.

2. Store passwords with hashing and salting. If you use an auth provider, like auth0 or firebase even, they will do this for you because they're not noobs. A noob-tier dev who stores plaintext passwords in a database with insecure connection and postgres:postgres is again stupid af.

Most of those leaked passwords are because of this. And don't think some Fortune 500 is not stupid. They outsource their development to Accenture or Detoilette, or any of the other outsourcers where they pay some "Software Architect" $8/hr to secure banking information (while charging the client $150/hr). I'm not throwing shade, but these companies are cheap af and throw bodies at the problem instead of experience and brains. I have direct experience with this, so I know how bad it is.

Don't confuse people being stupid (very common, 90% of any population) with a failure in a technology that others who don't understand it claim makes it inferior or something.

The internet and all the technology you use today is glued together by the <10% of people who actually understand computers, networking, and problem solving.

Just because a noob-dev uses session tokens doesn't mean it will be any secure if they fail those 2 points I mentioned. Those are so deadass simple to mitigate, anyone who purposefully skips on them should be named and shamed, and receive a 10 year cooldown from being a software developer.