[margor]

Sorry to break your bubble, but this is how people normally live on countrysides / small villages, at least in my country. Killing livestock animals is everyday thing and no one bats an eye.

Hell, even killing new born kittens / puppies is considered by some normal thing, if they breed uncontrolled (even if they could just... castrate / neuter them [not sure which is the right word for it, I'm not native]).

After all how is it different from a full grown chicken, other than the fact you don't normally eat cats/dogs?

[alt227]

Yep fully agree. I live in a small village near a country estate and lots of the people here kill and pluck their own foul, including myself. The ones that dont, have no issue with it.

When there is a shoot on the estate we request some of the birds and then through the season we regularly come home from work to find braces of dead pheasants hanging on our front door. We pluck them and then roast or make stews out of them and they are delicious.

It is common to walk through the village after a shoot and see dead birds hanging from most of the doors. Nobody complains or thinks it is strange, in fact everybody looks forward to the free meat!

[actionfromafar]

Why would any of that refute "a lot more would be vegetarian"?

[yurishimo]

Because there are plenty of people who don't kill/eat certain animals but do slaughter other animals. This person in the thread described their new love for chickens, but I have a good feeling that they probably still eat beef or pork. But the "solution" to the vegan problem cannot be to surround everyone with farm animals, because when that was true for most people (100+ years ago), everyone ate meat that they killed themselves.

I think any good person can understand and empathize with the modern day practices of factory farming and meat production, but the solutions coming from vegans are also untenable in the face of human history. We can move away from unethical farming practices without removing meat from our diets and ignoring the absolutely huge benefits of eating meat as humans.

[margor]

Because killing farm animals is considered a norm in almost all places who had done that since generations.

If you would be surrounded by chickens, livestock and other farm animals and watching them getting butchered was your daily bread as a child, why would you reconsider when you would grow up? It literally put food on your table, and besides home grown farm animals taste A LOT better (speaking from experience, but never grown them myself, any meat product I buy from the Walmart alikes tastes much worse).

Its only when you never witnessed death of any kind that you become so sensitive to it. Once it becomes normal (of course, I talk about farm animals here only) it's really hard to see advocates for vegetarianism as some sort of zealots.

And personally? What's the difference if they die of natural causes vs. just butchering them when the time is right? If you raised them ethically and they were generally happy, then for these animals its just... How it would end anyway? If you compare that to industrial farming, and if it was the only way to get meat sure I would consider being vege instead, its horrible how they are kept and treated. But for my own raised animals? Its a cycle of life.

[globular-toast]

People keep saying it's normal etc but then you'll notice everywhere it's always the poor people who end up doing the slaughtering while rich people get to pretend it doesn't happen.

I'm not sure that being desensitised is a good argument. People can become desensitised to a lot of things, like slavery or other abuse. That doesn't make it ok.

The difference is factory farming really. I don't think eating meat is wrong, per se. (But I do think a lot of people wouldn't miss meat if they tried it, especially the only eats chicken breast type). But factory farming is disgusting.

[margor]

Fully agreed on factory farming. Not only is it cruel and unethical, but the quality is also much worse making vegetables actually a pretty good alternative.

On that note, let me tell you how home grown vegetables are also a lot better than... ;)

[pvaldes]

Well, from a philosophical point of view, vegetarian movement is unfair for the plants

Plants that are responsible of lots and lots of human well-being and as life beings deserve to be treated with a similar respect that we use with other organisms.

Incidentally is also bad for human health

Yes, it is. Those articles that claim that you can live on a strict vegetarian diet without any bad consequences for your health are either lying, incomplete or based in pseudoscience. Is basically a religious movement.

[crashmat]

I have grown up on a purely vegetarian diet since I was born and I don't have any health problems from that. I know anecdotal evidence is usually not great and I will admit it is harder to maintain a healthy diet whilst vegetarian (but not too much), in this case it surely cannot be true that you can't live on a vegetarian diet without any bad consequences if I have done that?

[hombre_fatal]

What are these bad consequences so that someone can challenge your position?

[pvaldes]

Vegetarianism can be easily linked to a higher risk of chronic illnesses such as cancer, and heart, respiratory and neurological diseases.

[hombre_fatal]

What's the evidence for that?

[globular-toast]

I've been in such communities and they do bat an eye actually. If people enjoyed it then rich western people would be doing it for fun. Funny that I don't see the "kill your own goat" experience being sold in tourist packages.

[alt227]

Have you seen the 'Kill a cow with a grenade launcher' packages which are popular with stag parties in Eastern Europe?

[globular-toast]

No, but I'm well aware disgusting people exist. People abuse other people, but we generally agree this isn't a good thing. Also, pulling a trigger from afar isn't the same thing. I also wonder how many of those "real men" lose sleep after the experience. Emperor's new clothes comes to mind.

[alt227]

You seem incredibly closed to the fact that lots of very normal and kind people are fine with killing animals for food without issue. I assure you, there are many millions of them around the world.

[margor]

I think there is a shade of grey between enjoying it and never doing because animals are another living being that don't deserve it.

If you are doing it as part of putting a good tasting food on the table, I would say no, no one bats an eye, but I suppose they don't enjoy the process too - it's messy process and requiers some safety considerations too like making sure your meat doesn't have any parasites.

[hulitu]

> Funny that I don't see the "kill your own goat" experience being sold in tourist packages.

Some goats can kill you.

[salad-tycoon]

Hobby farming tourism is definitely a thing. Many well earning organizations host immersive events that include butchering classes.

Joel Salatin. Farmstead Meatsmith. Justin Rhodes. Etc.

I guess it depends on your definition of fun but rarely are people learning as an immediate need for survival.

[globular-toast]

Butchery != slaughter. And not many of those tourists can handle pig face, for example (I'm sure some of them force themselves to go through with it).