[Zambyte]

I appreciate the message you're conveying (I also switched from using vim for years to emacs for years, probably for good) but man, we have to stop attaching tools to our identities.

You're not only more than a vim user, you don't even use vim!

[kqr]

I would argue Evil mode (which Doom Emacs includes) is an implementation on Vim. Only instead of being an implementation in C, it's an implementation in Elisp.

I equate Vim not with the weird configuration language or source code of the original Vim project, but with the interaction language it uses – and Evil uses the same one.

Evil is more than "a vim compatibility layer" -- it is a reimplementation of Vim closer in spirit to nvim than anything else.

[samatman]

Some tools are closer to being identities than others. Being a 'vim user' is more like being a Dvorak user, it lives in muscle memory. 'vim user' is overloaded here, it colloquially means "user of the vim text editing language" rather than (just) "user of the text editor, vim".

I'm about intermediate at wielding vim, and the VSCode plugin implements enough of the language for me. But I'm fluent enough that being deprived of it is unpleasant, and I won't willingly edit text using a program which doesn't implement a decent vim mode.

It's not like computer languages or applications: the right number of text editing command-languages to be good at, like the right number of keyboard layouts, is one. Typing on a keyboard, and editing text, is my job. I don't want to waste time and productivity on learning several ways to do it, these are means to an end.

This being HN, someone might come up with some valid reasons to master more than one keyboard layout, particularly a "weird" one while retaining fluency in a standard one. Granted, call it a concession to an imperfect world.

[Zambyte]

Funnily enough the main keyboard I use is a split, columnar, Dvorak board. I also use a lot of tools that people like to attach to their identity: SwayWM (tiling wm user), Lisp and Scheme (Lisper and Schemer), GNU/Linux... I do not see these at all as a part of my identity. I think making these a part of my creates an aversion to change, and therefore progress.

Historically I have even used distros that people heavily identify with and call "end game distros", like Arch Linux, Gentoo, and NixOS. The former two I used for years each. I eventually have landed on GNU Guix, since for me it has worked better than anything else I've tried for my needs.

I really mean it when I say we should identify with our tools less. You may consciously identify with tools that you want to solidify as a part of yourself even with the potential aversion to progress which that may include. I can't think of any tools I would do that for though.

[bmacho]

Stop being vim-purist! There are so many ways that one can be a vim user, and yes, using vim is not necessary

[tasuki]

What is necessary to be a vim user?

[iLemming]

> What is necessary to be a vim user?

Think of vim-navigation as an idea without conceptual attachment to any concrete editor. Vim-navigation can be used even without any editor at all. Some people (like me) use vim-navigation in their browsers, terminals and their WMs. I control my music, windows, apps, etc., with h/j/k/l. My Neovim config is minimal because I rarely use it. Yet in Emacs, I use it extensively. Perhaps even more broadly than when I wasn't an Emacs user.

When people say "I'm a Vim user," they usually mean the concrete editor Vim/Gvim/Neovim because it is really difficult to replicate Vim outside of Vim. Every single plugin, editor, or IDE is just an emulation, with rare exceptions like Helix (which from the get-go was designed to have good support for it) and Emacs, which, due to its nature of being malleable and super-hackable, allows very nice integration of Vim features. Seasoned vimmers know that there's pretty much no vimming unless you're using Vim/Neovim https://x.com/garybernhardt/status/902956444596617216?lang=e... The caveat there is that they never tried Emacs with Evil. Evil is surprisingly very good. Probably the best implementation of vim.

And when you combine these two ideas - Vim navigation and Lisp, you get something truly amazing. Anyone who fervently detests one concrete implementation in favor of the other probably has a shallow understanding of either of these ideas. Write enough Lisp, and instead of getting angry at people trying to "vimify" your beloved Emacs, you'd be saying: "Cool, another testament to how awesome Emacs and Lisp are..."; learn enough Vim, and you would want to have it everywhere, not just in your favorite editor.

[necrotic_comp]

It's about modal editing and the editing commands/paradigm inherent in that.

[fuzztester]

This is a classic explanation:

Your problem with Vim is that you don't grok vi

https://stackoverflow.com/questions/72498282/your-problem-wi...

[stragies]

Direct link to original SE posting: https://stackoverflow.com/questions/1218390/what-is-your-mos...

[fuzztester]

Better, thanks.