[Retric]

I don’t think you understand what that word means. Extortion isn’t simply any negative consequence.

A dentist requiring payment before preforming surgery didn’t cause your tooth decay and they have no obligation to help you. Same deal here, someone offering a job is offering the possibility of a mutually beneficial relationship, but that’s as far as it goes.

[numpad0]

By that logic it's up to you to die or not from being shot in the face. That's like 18th-19th century or earlier model of world.

> A dentist ... have no obligation to help you.

btw, this is region dependent. Medical services are just businesses in the US, but doctors are obligated to provide emergency cares by law in many regions.

[Retric]

> By that logic it's up to you to die or not from being shot in the face.

No that’s an issue directly caused by a 3rd party. Hunger is imposed not by an individual but by biology.

> doctors are obligated to provide emergency cares by law in many regions.

There’s some confusion around what is the responsibility of an emergency room and individuals, but UK, USA, Canada, Singapore, etc don’t require doctors to act in an emergency. The US requires emergency rooms to protect treatment in an actual emergency but not everything qualifies. https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physician/ethics--legal/emtal....

Every country is different but few require doctors to act in an Emergency and non for general care, it’s basically a handful of European countries and Australia. Even then it’s a minimal level of treatment.

[ToucanLoucan]

What about when someone invents the concept of private property ownership, claims all the food as his own, hires a bunch of people by paying them with the food he has declared he owns to guard that food, and then demands payment for you to eat that food to survive?

Maybe extortion isn't the right word, but it's certainly not voluntary exchange either.

[Retric]

In nature help isn’t freely available. Private property is the default, a crow picks up a stick and it’s theirs. Ants defend their nests etc. Plants will break out chemical warfare to defend themselves. Walk into a lion’s den asking for help and your going to get eaten.

So what food do you expect to be freely available?

Anyway a voluntary exchange doesn’t mean equal leverage for all parties. I’m not going to negotiate a windows license with Microsoft it’s take it or leave it. Which is the hart of a voluntary exchange, either party can walk away without one party forcing their will on the other.

[mistrial9]

you throw so much of the real world out, in this simplistic rationalization. Economic niches could be related to ecological niches. Many ordinary animals have more than enough to eat for at least a season and a half, in so many places. What is the limitation? competition with your own burgeoning species for the physical space to occupy and, predation. Not everything is on the brink of starvation.

Predators evolve to exploit and kill those with abundance, and humans are expert predators. A vast portion of the civilized world it seems, was built directly from slavery and warfare. Slavery is very profitable, and wage slavery is alive today.

The simplistic example of food-scarcity is Reductio ad absurdum, to use the language of a top-line predator tribe from long ago.

[Retric]

First humans aren’t predators we’re omnivores which explains our teeth, intestines, etc. Most animals even things like horses will chow down on other animals given the opportunity, but plants don’t run away. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jP6dvgo25Z8

Nature is brutal. Starvation is one of the most common ways for animals to die, though still behind being eaten. Humanity has largely improved upon this natural state as even being enslaved beats being consumed alive.