[steve8918]

I've found that the biggest reason for neck and wrist pain is actually the mouse.

The position that most people use the mouse, off to the right side (if you're right-handed), causes your arm and your hand to twist unnaturally, since it needs to be flat to the table. This puts pressure on the nerves running down your arm, and for me, this is what caused the most amount of pain, to the point where I was worried my career as a programmer was over.

I've discovered that keeping the mouse to the left side of my body (I'm right-handed) and keeping my hand perpendicular to the tabletop as I use the mouse has all but alleviated my back and wrist pain, going on 15 years now.

To be clear, I don't hold the mouse normally. I have both my elbows on the table and keep the mouse almost all the way to my left elbow. I sort of cradle the mouse with my right hand, with my thumb and index finger on on the left button, and most of my hand on the right side of the mouse so that my hand remains perpendicular to the table. This mimics how my hand would be if I were writing with a pen, which is a more natural position.

I've been programming mostly pain-free ever since 1997 this way. I even use a regular mouse, I just hold it differently and use a posture that ergonomic specialist would probably reject, but it has completely worked for me.

[__alexs]

+1 to mice being evil. I'm not convinced by ergonomic mice despite having used one for the past 4-5 years. They are less painful to use but I find they just hide the problem. Using any normal mouse these days becomes painful within a couple of hours for me.

Instead I use a Trackpoint basically all the time now. I have ThinkPads at home and a MacBook Pro with one of these http://www.amazon.co.uk/Lenovo-ThinkPad-Travel-Keyboard-Trac... at work. The best features are less waving my arms around and a much more convenient location for note paper to live that doesn't require stretching or sliding things around when I need to write stuff.

Sadly (due to what I assume is a patent issue) there aren't very many hardware options for static pointing stick devices and they are all either ex-IBM hardware or current Lenovo hardware.

[ryan-c]

I actually hacked a Trackpoint into my Kinesis this past weekend - hopefully it won't take me too long to adjust. I still haven't figured out a great solution to clicking - at the moment I have the right control key mapped to a click using mousekeys (linux), but I don't have a good way to right click.

http://i.imgur.com/q6AQG.jpg

[jarek]

Some reasonably recent Dell or HP laptop models also have a trackpoint (though personally I didn't like either of them as well as the Thinkpads').

[__alexs]

Most of the imitations have movement in the stick it's self (and even a dead zone in the center sometimes) while the Thinkpads one is totally static and has only a rubber moulding to provide a little play.

[gallerytungsten]

Indeed, it's the mouse's fault. I switched to a trackball years ago and it's a vast improvement. Best one I've found so far is the Kensington "expert mouse" which has a wrist rest attached at the front.

[mtrimpe]

Another option which has worked wonders for me is the RollerMouse.

You just use your thumbs to move the bar around without ever taking your hands off the keyboard. It's a bit awkward at first, but you get used to it quite fast.

[see http://ergo.contour-design.com/]

[polyfractal]

Everyone thinks I'm crazy, but I still prefer to use a trackball as well. Particularly the "Microsoft Trackball Explorer", which unfortunately is no longer in production (so I'm treating mine like a prince so it never breaks)

[csallen]

As another data point, I use the mouse in a normal position (off to the right), plus I don't have an ergonomic keyboard, a special chair, or perfect posture. I've spent at least 5-6 hours a day on the computer since the 90s (and played an inordinate amount of video games), and I've yet to experience any wrist or neck pain.

An ergonomic specialist would reject everything I do, and you probably should too, regardless of how it works for me.

[henrik_w]

Yet another data point. I coded full time at work for 14 years without having any problems at all (an therefore not paying any attention to ergonomics either).

Then in 2005 I started having problems with my arms. It got so bad I thought I had to quit programming all together, but I managed to sort it out, and today I can work without problems.

The most important part of the solution for my was to start using a break program to force me to take regular breaks (preventing the problem in the first place instead of treating the symptoms). I also started to use a split keyboard without a numerical pad, and using a penclic pen-mouse.

I wrote about it at http://henrikwarne.com/2012/02/18/how-i-beat-rsi/ and it was dicussed here at HN here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3635692

[felideon]

Agreed. Have you tried Microsoft's Natural Mouse?[1] The way you describe gripping your mouse is how this one is shaped: you pretty much just rest your hand on it.

I've been using it for about 5 years[2] along with a mouse pad with palm rest and I've never had any wrist issues. Granted, I tend to use the keyboard as much as I can (even on Mac OS).

Incidentally, I also use Microsoft's Natural Keyboard, which is good enough for my typing habits. e.g. I don't hack non-stop for 6+ hours warranting a more expensive keyboard such as the Kinesis, and I tend to stretch and flex my fingers often.

Edit: Hmm, I just noticed the other comments regarding vertical mice. I'd never seen them before!

[1] http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Natural-Wireless-Laser-Mouse...

[2] I had it stored for a few months when I switched jobs and kept forgetting to taking it out, but it has lasted that long. I had to remove the gel pad a few months ago because it started to turn yellow and started to fall off. Otherwise, it's in perfect shape.

[jonstjohn]

I use a left-handed Evoluent mouse, even though I used a right-handed mouse for years (funny enough, I'm actually left handed but it still took some getting used to). This made a huge difference when I was developing some issues in my right hand years ago. I also have a track ball that I used to rotate in occasionally, although I haven't needed it for a long time.

[hcayless]

Back in 2001 I started having serious pain in my right wrist and solved it by switching to a trackball mouse. Laptops with touchpads are ok too as long as I don't pivot my wrist when I use them. Basically I've trained myself to keep my wrist pretty stable as I do things on the computer and that works well.

[DaveChild]

Mice do make a huge difference. I had years of forearm and wrist pain until switching to a vertical mouse.

[macspoofing]

You should use a vertical mouse.