[SheepSlapper]

My hometown is also home to Cyan, who made Myst/Riven. I've been to their offices a few times, just to nerd out with some of the devs and play random open source FPS games (the name escapes me). Their offices are really cool, they've got a lot of physical stuff from the games in various display cases around the entrance.

It's... weird to visit, though, because they're like the high school quarterbacks we all know. They had some great years when they were younger, but they're continuously trying to relive those glory days while yelling from the bar stool about that one time they threw the game winning pass. Most of their cash comes from remakes or ports of Myst/Riven, and half the time they aren't even the ones making the damn ports (third parties have paid them for the rights to do it, if you buy Myst on GoG then you got a version that was ported by GoG themselves).

They recently put out Obduction, which on paper seems to be a commercial failure (though I haven't sold seven figures worth of games so who am I to say), raking in like $5M total. Saving the fact that there are just a handful of dudes left at the studio... I don't know, it feels like the oft referenced online version of Cyan (which again, is 30 years old now) and their current reality are completely divergent.

I have some nostalgia for getting trapped in a book in Myst and feeling that fury, but I also struggle to see how they're relevant in today's gaming landscape. It feels like if Super Mario Bros was a one hit wonder, would we still be getting this pumped about crushing turtles three decades later?

[pavlov]

To me, it sounds similar to a once popular band who still make records together.

Maybe their style is progressive rock and they had one hit that still plays enough to keep the royalties flowing [1]. Decades later, audiences have mostly forgotten about prog rock, but does that mean the band should abandon what they know and enjoy, just to maybe try making a Rihanna-inspired album instead? Nobody wants that either.

It sounds like a chill lifestyle to be honest, doing what you love on your own pace, sometimes delivering something new to a dwindling but dedicated audience. Degrowth is anathema to start-up culture but it might be good for the aging human mind.

- -

[1] A lot of people who have never actively listened to prog rock could hum “Eye in the Sky…”

[SheepSlapper]

You're completely right, and if the shoe was on the other foot I'd probably do the same. I'd be happy to be a one hit wonder if it paid the bills and let me keep on rocking in the free world.

But at the same time, Norman Greenbaum doesn't release a new version of Spirit in the Sky every few years expecting to get a pat on the head. In fact, that'd be an insane choice to make. Cyan is making their new albums, but they're also releasing Myst[club-remix].mp3 and Riven[feat-shiny-bs].mp3 on a regular schedule, and part of you has to wonder when it's ok to embrace the one hit and maybe quit beating the dead horse (apparently there's money in the horse, instead of organs and horse meat, so they CAN beat it but why?)

[pavlov]

Old artists certainly do that kind of thing.

Let’s take somebody I actually really respect, the Pet Shop Boys. (They’re practically a one-hit wonder in America but had numerous hit records in Europe.)

Within the past month, PSB has released a new album “Nonetheless” to favorable reviews, but they also released an EP called “Furthermore” with completely new recordings of some of their best-known hits. Recently they also collaborated with British post-punk group Sleaford Mods on a cover and remix of “West End Girls.”

There’s an audience who enjoys all this. Why shouldn’t they both put out new material and work with others to rejuvenate the old? For someone who never liked their brand of melancholy synthpop, it’s beating a dead horse. For the fans, it’s keeping alive something that deserves it.

[defrost]

> Old artists certainly do that kind of thing.

But should they?? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a3MTlJF2qqM

( FWiW I'm all for grandparents making kids uncomfortable )

[MrBuddyCasino]

Interesting how the „up to date“, or should I say „generic“ production of Furthermore robs them of their charm. They had an instantly recognizable sound.

[pavlov]

I agree! These versions are trivial curiosities compared to the originals.

[SheepSlapper]

I mean, do whatever the hell you want. I'll call you out as a hack for doing it, but if someone out there enjoys it then more power to them.

Personally I think that if Nintendo eschewed new games, and kept releasing the original Super Mario Brothers (a beloved game from almost four decades ago) bit-for-bit on other devices, maybe with better graphics, they'd be irrelevant idiots today. Sure, there's SOME market for that, but what's much cooler is making new stuff that holds up in the current year. Nostalgia is a powerful tool, but porting code from 30 years ago to my smart fridge with upgraded graphics is a poor use of it (this is barely hyperbole for the franchise, which says a lot).

That all being said, I know the Cyan offices haven't collapsed into rubble so they're still doing OK (though their workforce is TINY now, compared to 'back when'). And if that's what floats their boat, great. I'd rather suck start my shotgun than release the same software for 30 years (same as in verbatim, no less, someone else is porting it to modern stacks) but to each their own...

[pavlov]

But Cyan does release new games with no connection to the Myst IP. And Nintendo has re-released the original Super Mario Bros on different platforms over the years.

[mynameisvlad]

> kept releasing the original Super Mario Brothers (a beloved game from almost four decades ago) bit-for-bit on other devices, maybe with better graphics, they'd be irrelevant idiots today

But they do that all the time. New Super Mario Bros had like 5 different releases across multiple platforms with little to no changes. Hell, the entire SMB lineup is basically the same game with a new gimmick and fresh graphics tacked on every release.

[anthk]

Super Mario All Stars it's a remake of the classic Mario Bros games for the NES but with SNES' Super Mario World graphics, they stil hold up really well today.

[skrebbel]

> part of you has to wonder when it's ok to embrace the one hit and maybe quit beating the dead horse

Lots and lots of musicians play all their 20yo hit records every concert. It’s expected, not “beating the dead horse”. I don’t see how this is all that different.

[YawHawHawn]

I like that your go-to for prog rock is "Eye in the Sky." I really can't fault it; my first thought was that technically Yes is more iconic of the genre, but it's probably less-known by younger people; if only for the Bulls oddly using Alan Parsons as their intro.

Now THAT I thought was a strange choice... Alan Parsons Project for a bombastic sports-stadium entrance.

[ido]

The sad truth is that capturing lightning in a bottle is exceedingly rare, let alone twice or more. Cyan made at least 2 massive hits, which is 2 more than almost all game studios manage. Even their contemporaries Id Software didn't make that many more hits (Quake 3 was their last outright hit, releasing only 2 years after Riven).

There are almost no Bethesdas/Blizzards/etc that continue releasing hits for decades at a time.

[SheepSlapper]

Fair point, and I sort of understand the nostalgia that's involved. A large part of my disappointment probably comes from the fact that the endless remakes never quite live up to the hype.

I was a big Diablo 2 fiend, it was one of my formative online games. So a few years ago there are rumblings about D2 Remastered, and I'm obviously pumped. Come launch day, Blizzard has my money and I'm deep into the thing I used to love, but it's just... meh. There was a time and place that made the original D2 fantastic, but it turns out that's not here and now. I feel the same thing for Myst/Riven, they were SO GOOD but who actually gives a shit about doing the same thing again with better graphics?

I can't write off the fact that those dudes made a few great games, and that's a crazy accomplishment. I think Myst is the first "real" PC game my family ever bought, and I still remember my mom staying up late at night to click around the world and figure out what the hell was happening. She wrote notes on those yellow legal pads, reminding her of lore and other important shit. But the lightning in a bottle thing works both ways, and that lightning is basically static electricity in todays world :P To borrow your example, id software didn't release the same version of DOOM 30 years later, we got DOOM Eternal. It's not a reskin of their (by today's standards) shitty game, it's a whole new experience that's a damned (hah) blast to play. That's not what's happening with Myst/Riven, unfortunately, but I'd love to see that level of innovation come out of the studio that was once great.

[ido]

They did make new games tho, most recently Obduction and Firmament (the latter released in 2023). I think their style of games just fell off the zeitgeist.

Anyway I do empathise - my favorite games are fallout and fallout 2 and I was looking forward to Bethesda’s sequels but I never manage to stick to any of them for more than a couple hours, it just doesn’t feel like fallout to me - and I think a big part of it is because I’m not longer 14 years old playing a new game (with very little other commitments on my time and attention).

[SheepSlapper]

I know they made newer games, I played Obduction in person in their offices before it was released :)

But you're on the same page as me, there was a time and place for these FANTASTIC games, but that's in the past. And it feels kind of silly to watch them push the same games onto new platforms in a futile attempt to stay relevant (and cash the nostalgia checks, even when players end up NOT feeling the same things as the OG release).

Part of why I didn't like D2 again is exactly what you said, I'm not a teenager with endless time to spend online gaming. But another huge part is that I've been there and done that, and a nicer, newer version of that fun just doesn't hold a candle to the fun I had years ago when it was fresh. I'm saying the same holds true for Myst/Riven, release it on my smart fridge for all I care, it's not the same :D

[mst]

The original D2 is still one of my favourite things for LAN play (especially with the Ancestral Recall - Skills Enhanced mod), I think the friends plus pizza plus beer combination helps bring the nostalgia back more than a graphical overhaul would.

[ido]

Yeah I agree we actually agree! Another complicating factor is that there’s a significant subjective component to it - I have an acquaintance that works at Cyan (after growing up with Myst and Riven) and is extremely happy working on their newer games.

Ultimately they’re getting money from players (not investors), so the test of “is there a reason to remake the old games” is ultimately if people are buying them (and I wonder how many of them haven’t played the originals? Considering they came out almost 30 years ago).

[pavlov]

I had the same experience with the Fallouts. These were the last PC games I played obsessively. (In my late teens I decided I wanted to be an artist, while gaming was moving in the opposite direction with always more guns and 3D and less story and less art. So for a long time I never played another game after Fallout 2.)

In 2016 I was very impressed by the advances in VR, and so I spent thousands on a gaming PC and HTC Vive and the VR edition of Fallout 4. But one hour into the game it was clear that the magic just wasn’t there. I had this expensive setup to put me directly inside the world I enjoyed as a teen, but it was totally “uncanny valley.” The overwrought game design had lost the mystery, and the 3D VR rendering just made everything look cheap and fake. Engaging the player’s imagination is a delicate balance.

[Sharlin]

It's not just you. Bethesda's Fallouts are like cargo cult versions of the classics. Oblivion set in a retrofuturistic postapocalyptic world just isn't the same thing.

[Minor49er]

On the contrary, Obduction is probably their best game. The puzzles are well thought-out, hints are signalled in clever ways, the environments are detailed and gorgeous, and the storyline is pretty interesting

They recently released Firmament which was successfully backed on Kickstarter. (I'm eyeing my boxed copy on my shelf right now.) I'm partway into it, so I can't yet say if it's better than Obduction, but it has been an excellent experience so far

I don't think it's fair to slam Cyan for being so proud of Myst and talking about it all the time. It was one of the most influential and successful video games. It got kids into technology, puzzles, and sci-fi. Myst is not merely remembered. It is still an ongoing franchise with an active fanbase. Why do they need "hits" when they are still a successful company?

[stewarts]

Wife and I played Obduction last year and really enjoyed it. She may have known, but I had no idea it was a Cyan game. Or I'm getting old and forgetting that I did know.

Just heard about Firmament, I guess we have another game to add the the "Winter Doldrums" playlist.

[mst]

My most replayed game is Traffic Department 2192, as much to re-experience the 70,000 words of script as anything else (it became freeware a while back, and I'd endorse anybody reading this firing up your DOSBOX to try the first mission - if it's your sort of thing, the dialogue will almost certainly hook you by the time you're ready for the second).

It's at least 25 years since I first played it now and I'm always pumped to replay it.

So ... maybe not Super Mario, but still.

[amatecha]

open source FPS, maybe sauerbraten or openarena? or perhaps nexuiz… those three are the ones I've encountered the most - all fun!

[SheepSlapper]

I looked it up: Xonotic was the answer!

It was actually quite fun, even though I had to compile from source to play on an outdated office server :)

https://xonotic.org/

[amatecha]

Oh right! Nice. I've only played it once or twice, but now I'm kinda thinking I should give it another try -- forgot how good it looks. People at Cyan were playing this (and you joined up)?? That's awesome haha