[Krasnol]

> If noone ever fought for the environment beyond their own personal immediate health we might be in better position now than we are in term of CO2 and millions of people and thousands of ecosystems and species could be saved.

It is astonishing how far the nuclear bubble is ready to go down the stairs of reason for drama. I mean seriously? Wtf is this? :D Are you joking? This is the equivalent of people who buy a gun to protect their house because the police is useless and being proud of it.

[scotty79]

I don't get your analogy and I don't care about nuclear specifically.

There were many examples where dams weren't built to protect local ecosystems. Pumped storage denied. Roads not build that could shorten the travel. Ethanol in fuel that actually emitted more CO2 because of land use change to satisfy the enforced demand. Multi-use bags that require so much energy and resources to build that you need to use them thousand times to get even with single use ones. Paper bags that require more energy and resources to produce which decay or burn releasing CO2. Plug-in hybrids that barely anyone charges that are hauling useless heavy batteries while burning more gasoline. Whole recycling scam mascarading as a solution. All these dumb specific interventions that backfire.

The only thing that comes to my mind that actually improved situation was the global ban on fluorocarbons.

[hi-v-rocknroll]

The thinking that climate change / CO2 is any different from CFCs is the primary barrier in the way of meaningful action. It takes persistent leadership on an international basis to get people of the world to do things differently, overcome greed, ignorance, and resistance, and stop the Holocene from ending with mass starvation, mass migration, and tens of billions of unnecessary deaths.

[scotty79]

It's easier to get all countries to ban one class of refrigerants than all fuels.

We were super lucky in the case of ozone layer.