[pandaman]

I think you might be transposing the cause and effect. Mechanical rim brakes had been limiting the wheel width because of physics of leverage, disc brakes opened demand for wheels of any width and users naturally migrated to the wider wheels.

[bennyelv]

It can't work like that in the world of mass produced equipment. You can only buy what the manufacturers are making, and as far as I'm aware there haven't been any wheels that are offered in different widths that the consumer can choose from.

It's always: this is the latest model, it has these features, thanks.

[pandaman]

I don't think this is a realistic world picture: if this was true then the wheel manufacturers would just keep making rim brake wheels, which a apparently more profitable in your view. In real world a wheel supplier will make wheels for the specs their customers, bike manufacturers and bike shops, order. And those order what their customers, cyclists, demand.

[bennyelv]

I hear what you're saying and that would normally make sense, but there are reasons why I don't think its true in the bike industry. It comes down to the same arguments that you often see on HN about whether or not a free market works.

Shimano can decide to stop manufacturing rim brake groupsets and spares for existing rim brake groupsets unilaterally. It doesn't matter if the customer wants it or not. The rest of the bike industry supply side won't object to it, because it pushes people towards replacing whole bicycles which benefits all of them.

Other component manufacturers can play the same games in the areas that they can control. Wheel manufacturers can start pushing to wider rims, and then increasing profitability with hookless. Benefits the frame manufacturer (oh no, you need a frame with more clearance!), the tyre manufacturer, doesn't negatively affect any other the other players who aren't directly affected, spin a marketing story about how great this new thing is based on dubious test results and claims, and off it goes.

Repeat that cycle a few times in a few different areas and you have the situation we are now currently in:

The price of a mid/high end bike has doubled in the last 5 years. The bikes have got heavier and more complicated and harder to maintain. The consumers are all pissed off with it and start leaving the sport. Sales suddenly fall off a cliff.

I'm not saying this as a conspiracy theory nut, but rather that there are a set of dynamics at play in this industry that mean that this kind of thing can happen.

[seadan83]

If shimano stopped making rim brakes, no tour de France athlete would use shimano groupsets. Rim brakes are lighter, that is why.

Would shimano ever give that up? No. All these companies pride themselves for being what the elites run. Dura ace would become a joke if no elites used it. The dura ace groupo upgrade is thousands of dollars (2k to be exact, it's the most expensive 100g you can pay for), & dura ace is high profi. So mo, too much brand risk. I mean, why haven't they stopped selling rim brakes already? It makes zero sense for shimano to do that.

Further, there are plenty of bike tire manufacturers making a variety of rim sizes. Some bikes can only do 25s max, makes no sense to only have a 28mm rim.

What's more, there's millions, probably hundreds of millions of older bikes that all need new rims every few years. For what you're saying to be accurate, no company would seize that demand and instead some sort of duopoly would instead opt for forced obsolescence. I don't see that as being the case (it is for thing like iPhones/cell phones, but the bike industry is very different)

[pmontra]

Your points about the zillions of rim brakes bikes sold at 100-300 Euro price points are definitely on spot. They don't need performance, those brakes are very cheap, they are easy to maintain, they'll last forever in the market IMHO.

However I'm not sure I understood your first point about disc vs rim brakes. Rim brakes are lighter but disc brakes brake better, in a shorter span and under any circumstance, even in the rain when the rim is wet and a rim brake takes a little to warm up and make friction on the rim. Furthermore wheels and bikes are at 6.8 kg even with disc brakes now. That's why every pro rider started using them when they had a choice. There was a short while when they were kept at hold because of concerns that the disc could hurt riders in group crashes (they don't have that problem in cyclocross or MTB,) then concerns about weight and aero, but given the average speeds they are doing at the Giro in these days I'd say that it is all well in the past.

I'm no tour de France rider but on a steep and long slope I rather use my disc brakes than the rim brakes of my previous bicycle. It was a good bike with much better brakes than the vbrakes of the bike I use for touring with bags but disc brakes are on a different level.