[kgabis]

> The EU estimates that in a 80% renewable grid you need approx 30% storage capacity. So let's assume we need 40% storage capacity for a 100% grid.

Fortunately there's no such thing as diminishing returns and we can just make assumptions like this without any backing./s

[j-pb]

He said without providing any backing.

But sure let's take a paper that estimated costs for the 100% renewable case: https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/ac4dc8#...

They estimate €80 per MWh for an entirely renewable System.

So do you want to provide a study that has some contradicting numbers, or do you just want to admit that no amount of evidence is going to change your mind and move on?

[kgabis]

This study assumes 54.8 TWh of hydrogen storage, good luck with that.

[defrost]

That's between 1.5 and 2 million tonnes of hydrogen .. in a world that currently produces about 74 million tonnes of hydrogen annually already.

There are multiple sources for those interested, https://www.carboncommentary.com/blog/2021/6/11/some-rules-o... is a brief dot point page, the Hydrogen UK and European Hydrogen Backbone reports are longer more detailed technical report papers.

[kgabis]

Cool link, thanks. But speaking about hydrogen production and not storage is a bit misleading: currently we can story only 0.5TWh of energy using hydrogen WORLDWIDE, and this paper proposes 55TWh just for Germany. Currently, hydrogen is mostly used for greenwashing fossil fuels, with a promise that if be build infrastructure using "bad" hydrogen, we will be ready when "good" hydrogen arrives.

[j-pb]

Yeah its used for greenwashing. But you wanted a 100% study and I provided one.

Our point is that nuclear is used exactly for the same purpose: "We don't need to invest into renewables, because fusion and nuclear is gonna magically save us all in 10 years."

Again it's great that france has this much nuclear right now. But that's not a good path for the rest of europe catching up. Especially not with the current price trajectories. (Nuclear becoming more expensive, storage and renewables getting cheaper)

[kgabis]

I'm not saying we shouldn't invest in renewables, but that we need to consider their limitations, primarily intermittency and unfeasability of storing TWhs of energy for later. At the same time, we need to find a way to cheaply and fast build new nuclear power stations (like Korea and China are doing). Time is running out, yet a large group of public opposes the single biggest source of clean energy there is.