[tschwimmer]

I don’t agree. I live in the Bay Area and eating out is noticeably more expensive in Zurich than here. I find that you’re not going to get away for less than 60-70 francs for dinner for two pretty much anywhere in Zurich. Sure, there are many places you can pay that much in the bay, but you can also eat for much cheaper. Even outside the cities it’s insane. We went to a regular looking Indian restaurant 40km outside of Basel and it was 35 francs a plate. We thought the portions were going to be huge but no, maybe 200 grams of curry and a small cup of rice. Eye popping.

Groceries are about the same with the exception of beef which literally seems like it’s 2-3x us prices.

I think rent in Switzerland is way cheaper both in absolute terms and the value you get for your money. The housing stock is much better quality than the Bay Area. Having good public transit also makes it easier to live in a wider variety of places too.

[tempsy]

in what world is 60-70 francs for dinner eg under $80 or $40pp eye-popping for dinner especially when you add tax and tip to any menu price in the US?

and you can't compare in-n-out to a sit down place.

an average casual ramen place is like $22 a bowl now here. add an egg (yes, they don't include it anymore) and it's $25. then add one drink or something and you're at $30. Then tax is $33 and tip is another $6-7. That's $40 for a ramen and a drink.

[tschwimmer]

This is a reasonable middle eastern restaurant in Palo Alto: https://orenshummus.com/lunch-dinner-menu/

If you get 2 drinks, an appetizer and 2 sandwiches yes, it's about $40 pp. But if you just get two sandwiches it's much closer to 20-25PP.

Similar story here: https://coconutspaloalto.com/menu.html

These are two restaurants in some of the most expensive real estate and highest income area in California if not the whole US. Meanwhile the Indian place was as I said, 40km outside Basel (the town was amusingly called Frick).

(by the way I checked Ramen Nagi, also in Palo Alto and has lines out the door every day. Regular bowl is 15.25, an egg is 2.75. So I think your baseline is a bit high.)

[tempsy]

You intentionally picked fast casual places that are akin to a Chipotle. I'm talking about a sit down place with service.

I'm in San Francisco. Not sure if you've been to a sit down place recently but trying to argue a sit down meal is $25pp inclusive of tax and tip is ridiculous.

[tschwimmer]

Coconuts and Orens are full service sit down restaurants. They may not be super fancy byt you do not order from a counter like Chipotle. Ramen Nagi is not strictly full service because the lines are so long - the server comes out and hands you a order card to expedite the process. But there are roving waitstaff that handle appetizers and drinks. I think you settle the check at the counter.

The most recent full service restaurant we went to in SF was Sam Wo (https://www.yelp.com/biz/sam-wo-restaurant-san-francisco-3), that was definitely under 25PP I think even with drinks).

I mean, sure, if you go to trendy restaurant of the week it's going to be super expensive. But there are plenty of places you can eat out in SF for ~$15 a person out the door. I don't feel like that's true in Zurich.

In fact, writing this comment made me remember when I went to Hiltl Sihlpost. That's definitely not a full service restaurant, but it was 30 francs for a plate of entirely vegetarian food! Reflecting more, I think what's missing in Zurich is the equivalent of low end Bay Area restaurants.