[r00fus]

I'm actually about to buy a car (having thoroughly examined various models by renting on Turo) so this is very timely!

For EVs, it seems the largest question is with the EV battery. Is there any way that anyone knows how to determine the health of the EV battery consistently across make/models?

[gdudeman]

Recurrent has a fairly accurate battery health estimate tool.

There are tools for directly connecting via ODB that can give you the battery health at least for the Nissan Leaf, but I haven't looked into them for years and couldn't tell you for sure.

In general, lower miles is better and not from a super hot climate is better (purchased and driven in Washington State > Driven in Arizona).

[natch]

The charger network is the largest question. And who will give you 1% financing also helps. And which car has 320 miles range for $32,000 after EV tax credit and gas savings.

[r00fus]

So I did evaluate the Tesla MY and IMHO I'm not impressed. Note: it is a decent car. We have high standards however. There are a lot of "features" on the car that require additional engineering just to bypass.

Example1: windows on the doors don't have a full frame (looks nice, but not functionally different than a standard door frame). This requires engineering to lower the window when closing then push it back up. Also kids in the back closing doors is really noisy.

Example2: the full moonroof is really really hot. This causes the car (black interior is default) to heat up incredibly on warm days (also passengers in back complained their head was too warm) So Tesla created pet mode to keep the car from becoming inhabitable for the first few minutes - but that uses energy.

Example3: games can prevent the car from going into Drive mode. That's just silly - let the game expire, the car needing to move is far more important (for a vehicle!).

All of these examples aren't showstoppers but the decision framework that resulted in them really make me concerned so we've removed this from our buy list. We also evaluated the ID4, EV6, Leaf, Ariya and Ioniq5. So far the winner is the EV6 (ventilated seats!) and the Leaf (but the battery/charging situation is disqualifying).

[natch]

So, having Netflix in the car requires extra engineering, so that makes it "bad"? Not sure I'm buying this logic.

Your examples however are PEBCAK. Taking them one by one:

1) Kids are noisy. Full stop. Deal. And the odd point about features (windshield wipers? remote dashcam viewing from the app while parked? wheels?) requiring engineering is quirky and bizarro.

2) Common misconception. Adjust the AC. The AC in a Tesla is from God himself (and I don't mean Elon, I mean God himself). But while the glory goes to God, the credit goes to the massive battery. There are simply no constraints on how much cooling can be done. Elon understands this, and he invited God to design the system and God really came through. And the delta in energy use is minuscule versus the AC energy you would expend with a metal roof. And the thin roof is giving you more headroom and storage room. White interior? Never! Besides if you're worried you can pre-cool the car remotely from the app over the internet, or even schedule it.

3) I suppose you did not try stepping on the brake and putting the car in gear. It will engage immediately.

Also, curious, is it:

(EV6 (ventilated seats!) and the Leaf) (but the battery/charging situation is disqualifying)

or:

EV6 (ventilated seats!) and (the Leaf (but the battery/charging situation is disqualifying))

? If the latter, do tell.

If ventilated seats are your thing, the Model Y should have them in some unknown number of months when they put out the redesign. Ventilated seats were added for the redesign of the Model 3.

It's possible the current short promotional 0.99% financing for Model Y is designed to clear out inventory to make room for the updated Model Y with ventilated seats... who knows.

Curious to hear your other PEBCAK examples.

[manchmalscott]

Here’s something most cars can do: if the power is cut off, I can still open the car door without having to pry off a speaker from the door and fish for an unlabeled release cord. There’s just a handle on the door, the same one I use to open the door normally.

Another thing I can do is switch between reverse and drive with two distinct physical buttons that are pushed in different directions, instead of a touchscreen.

This extra engineering to make cars “more sleek” (i.e. cheaper for Tesla to manufacture) make it more dangerous for everyone inside the car.

[1] https://www.tesla.com/ownersmanual/modelx/en_jo/GUID-AAD769C...

[2] https://nypost.com/2024/03/09/us-news/angela-chao-made-panic...

[natch]

That first problem is only for Model X. Other models have pull handles.

Second story, again, Model X, yes that is not good. Personally I would avoid that model (and Cybertruck for other reasons).

[0xcafecafe]

I was seriously considering one last year and the quality control issues threw me off. The fact that you need to go through a long checklist to take delivery of a new car is mentally exhausting (example here: https://teslaprep.glideapp.io/dl/d0a5f4). Not to mention the suspension issues that were making the news (whompy wheels).

[r00fus]

Note: this is HN, not electrek so maybe tone down your condescension.

All of the issues have workarounds but the illogic of form over function made me reconsider the purchase - because if I could find these issues in a few days of renting the car, who knows what I'd find if I owned it for a few years.

And for (3), no I was pressing brake - it simply refused to kill the game and go back into drive - I had to quit the game.

Ultimately many other folks are doing the same sort of eval. And Tesla had years to refine their approach, take customer input and... did crazy other things.

[natch]

Sorry for being condescending.

I’d also agree Tesla is definitely weak on taking customer input.

For (3) you have to not only press the brake, but also pull the stalk down or whatever other gear shift of the month button it is, at the same time. I’ve encountered times when you have to pull (the stalk) twice in quick succession if once doesn’t do it.

[addaon]

What does "after … gas savings" mean? Is there some way to actually get spendable money here, or is this basically the same as saying my yacht was free because I saved so much money on not buying a bigger yacht?

[sandworm101]

There is/was an idea that lenders would be open to larger loans for EV cars as buyers would face reduced running costs, as opposed to a IC car. That largely hasn't materialized. Lifetime running costs of EVs just aren't as low as expected, particularly in the used car market. Getting anything fixed on a 10+yo EV is hit-or-miss in terms of cost.

[natch]

My running costs have been very low. 100,000 miles and the only service visit has been a low-voltage (the small 12 volt, cheap) battery replacement. And, third party, getting new tires. Added my own wiper fluid. That's it. And power is very cheap compared to gas.

When you factor in the cost of incurring the loss of value as the resale price comes down, now you're talking about a real issue. Overall while I've saved on maintenance, it hasn't held value. So maybe it's a wash in that respect. But it's a fun car so I'm happy with it.

[natch]

I think 0.99% fixed over 72 months is pretty darn good.

[sandworm101]

1% is nice, but I think a 72-month loan on a new car is a recipe for disaster. For almost all of that time period you will be "under water" on the loan, owing more than the car is currently worth.

[natch]

True, I avoid such long loans. The rate also works for shorter terms.

[natch]

Hahahaha it's a little like that except here the cheaper yacht is better.

(Dons serious hat) Since many people in our context (this thread) would consider a car something they might buy (as opposed to a yacht, I hope you would agree), to the extent that it is a purchase they are going to do anyway, for the not insignificant subset that's going to buy a new car, it's not a bad thing to save roughly $12,000 on said purchase while getting a car that's less smelly, more roomy, faster, more fun, and more safe.

If "roughly" doesn't work for you, the exact amount can be calculated during checkout at better EV purchase websites by putting in your local electricity cost, local gas cost, etc. if that's what you're asking.

[asynchronous]

The current 0.99% financing offer is making me absolutely go insane compared to the interest I bought at.