[hjanssen]

This reads like its a group advocating for exactly the wrong kind of deregulation that turns markets into basically unbreakable monopolys.

The EU directly opposes the growth model of the new-era tech startups (ruthless growth financed by investor money, take over competitors, market monopoly) and the regulations aim to keep markets at least a little bit competitive.

We (the EU) do not need or want this kind of deregulation.

[seydor]

How can you speak for all of EU?

There's ways to make life for small-entrepreneurs easier.

I need this kind of deregulation. Example, i m taking microtransactiosn for my game. Giving out VAT invoices for all of them is an impossible task. You need to account for the different VATs in the area (and how they change over time). The cost of the accountant for all this would be many times more than the tiny amounts of the transactions. So i have outsourced the money collection to a US-based merchant-of-record who withholds a large cut and pays out once.

I think a lot of people can point to friction like this in all the places. This has nothing to do with "rughless growth by investor money", but with common sense. There is too much BS work going on in europe, much more than should be allowed

[omnimus]

It’s not good example as technicaly you are required to pay the “digital product tax” in many countries outside EU (and more are comming every year). Actually if you are based in EU paying the EU VAT is the easiest for you because you collect the taxes (just like any ecommerce store would) and use OSS (One Stop Shop) where you pay them to your country along with your native taxes.

You will probably still need MoR because similar schemes GST (australia, canada, india), russia and yes US sales tax. And those would be a lot harder for you to pay than VAT (US sales tax is particularly complicated ad changing).

Now of course you could not care about paying these (unlike EU that would find out quickly) but it could be pretty unfortunate if one gets stopped on trip to Canada about 7 year old unpayed taxes with fines adjusted for inflation…

[raverbashing]

Thanks, this is the kind of debate that we need

There's a whole nuance being lost on most of these discussions.

[piva00]

Dumb question: wouldn't the USA have the same issue with state taxes varying across the country? Or are state taxes collected from where the company is headquartered and not from where customers are purchasing from?

[omnimus]

They do have same issue. Also companies outside of USA may have to pay many different local types of US sales tax.

Thats why every smaller company selling digital products uses merchant of record.

[mathverse]

I am European but ur reply perfectly represents why the EU is doomed to fail. The monopolistic super companies will be created no matter what EU does. They are and will be just created somewhere else and EU will be left with nothing just bunch of tier2-3 suppliers to these behemoths.

[dns_snek]

I refuse to accept that the only way forward is to join the pointless rat race that ends up with the entire society being enslaved to a handful of megacorporations and their shareholders.

I don't want to live in that world, and I don't think most people do either. Yes, if we don't join them, there's a possibility that we might end up being enslaved to foreign megacorporations rather than domestic ones, but at least we'll have a chance to create something less dystopian instead.

[piva00]

That world would be a cyberpunk dystopia with some large conglomerates with power over many nations. I don't think playing that game is the way forward and if the EU can offer a counterpoint to this future I believe it's worth it, much rather live in a place which attempted to curtail this behemoth-creating machine than be an active participant in creating a dystopian future.

[hjanssen]

This paints a picture of the future that imo is kind of fatalistic and dystopian. I personally refuse to accept that this is the inevitable end state of our society and markets.

[floam]

It’s the past and present, what do you think will change if nothing changes?

[cm277]

Agreed; this criticism comes from the POV of "the US is richer, so let's do what the US does". Instead, we should see that the US is struggling across many, many dimensions and the inordinate success of American Big Tech / Big Business has a lot to do with it. It's like looking at Dubai and saying "oh they are doing great, let's start drilling".

Instead Europe should focus on what's stopping EU companies from scaling and leveraging their strengths: lower costs, better infrastructure, more diverse customers and employees.

As a founder on both sides of the Atlantic, I would keep it simple:

1. The EU needs a common credit rating system, similar to Duns & Bradstreet in the US (which is a private company mind you, so very possible) and more competition between banks that should be allowed to do business anywhere in the EU. The EU banking system is much better than the US one, but the above stop it from scaling across the continent.

2. EU needs to give higher incentives to EU companies to do business with EU startups. The fragmented EU market means that most valuable European companies end up being very conservative in how they spend their money (because competition is weak / settled). Therefore they are much less likely to do business with startups for normal business risk reasons. That's a chilling effect for B2B companies who are more likely to get traction in the US rather than the EU. A simple insurance or tax credit scheme would go a long way to reduce risk --and would help the EU get their money back from many startup / VC programs they are subsidizing anyway.

[rmnwski]

Regulation protects old, big incumbents that are slow to innovate. How is that a competitive market? Meanwhile innovation, wealth and power is created elsewhere.