[DEADMINCE]

> All (serious) VPN providers claim they don't store logs. But that does not mean that a court can't force them to do so. When combined with a gag order you can have someone collecting all your traffic without you even realizing it. And that's just the VPN provider, which usually doesn't own any datacenters. The datacenter providers can also receive the orders to either monitor traffic or even install hardware to do so. If

None of this really matters unless you are doing something illegal enough that the government is interested in you and convinced a judge to get warrants.

That isn't 99% of people. 99% of people just want to try and stop being traced and their data being harvested with an easy solution that mostly works for that purpose.

[sigmoid10]

>None of this really matters unless you are doing something illegal enough that the government is interested in you

The issue here is that how "illegal" something is depends heavily on where you live. In some places speaking against the government can get you killed [1]. In others, hosting movies can get your house raided by police helicopters [2].

[1] https://www.unesco.org/en/safety-journalists/observatory

[2] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmIPVrkN1hA

[DEADMINCE]

> The issue here is that how "illegal" something is depends heavily on where you live.

The context of the discussion was the EU.

And the point stands. For 99% of people VPNs offer privacy even against the government, that would need to meet a high burden of proof and require a warrant to break that privacy.

[sigmoid10]

I said nothing that goes against the context. Again: When you are actually scared of getting cought for something, a commercial VPN very likely doesn't help. That goes for all jurisdictions.

[DEADMINCE]

> I said nothing that goes against the context.

You mentioned the EU as a whole but the point is it isn't and is indeed widely varied when it comes to the sorts of laws you are relying on to make your argument.