[zer00eyz]

This is one of those times where you need to go talk to your manager.

You need to tell him: I dont want you to intercede in this matter, I want to develop the skills to deal with this myself.

You need to say out loud. "stop speaking over me", "stop cutting so and so of", "xxx be quite YYY was not done speaking, YYY continue". You need to take ownership over your ideas and speak up for yourself.

The ladder up in business is a human one, you can be a rung or you can learn to climb. You dont have to be a dick about things but you should NOT be walked on with out deference or credit.

EDIT and PS: Never take a pay cut unless you're unemployed. That line only goes UP.

[giantg2]

"Never take a pay cut unless you're unemployed. That line only goes UP."

This is terrible advice. You can absolutely take a pay cut for a lower stress job or better worklife balance. I've known quite a few people who go out of higher paying jobs because they wanted a better working environment. It's not always feasible to get higher pay and better conditions.

[zer00eyz]

In the grand scheme of humanity we have those who live in abject poverty, who are near or at slave labor levels to grow coffee or mine minerals that end up powering the HN workforce.

The words "better working environment" where the highest risk to your well being is RIS and the drive time on your commute (if you even have one) is the most fucking entitled notion ever. Do you know how many people die every year on the job, suffer disabilities that stop them from working? I dont think your average HN reader is going to be one of those people.

Most of HN is likely in the top 10 percent of earners in the US, for jobs that look nothing like every one else's. Your out here talking about work life balance when the majority of Americans work jobs where the words OVERTIME would be cause for excitement.

And that's the thing, I have worked for my money in a past life. I know plenty of people who WORK for their money today. Candidly no amount of typing is going to make me want to go back to one of those SHIT jobs. And every one else I know who has had or still has one of those SHIT jobs is gonna agree.

> It's not always feasible to get higher pay and better conditions.

in 26 years in the SF Bay Area, there has only been one time where this was NOT the case, and that was at the end of the dot com bubble. Unemployed, or a lot of risk (aka founders) are the only times I have ever seen people take pay cuts.

[giantg2]

Nothing you're saying conflicts with what I'm saying.

Death and disability is not likely when working a keyboard, but those aren't the only things determining the working environment.

I'd be excited about overtime if we actually got overtime. I've worked other types of jobs with overtime and enjoyed getting it. I'm not excited about working 60hr weeks on a salary when a similar rate of pay can be had at 40hr a week, even if it results in a lower salary.

Yes, most HN users are likely paid above average. That's part of the reason the person doesn't always have to look for a higher salary but can look at job details. However, I don't believe they're all in the top 10% for their locality. There are other high paying professions, and plenty of lower paying dev jobs. I actually make below the median nationally and for my locality.

Ok... so you agree that it's not always feasible to take a higher paying job...

[vunderba]

This is such a bizarrely unrelated rant to what parent was saying. It's absolutely okay to take a pay decrease where other conditions (that are important to you) are being met such as:

1. A job which more closely aligns with your interests

2. A job which feels more laudable/noble

3. A job which lets you work from home vs office

etc. etc.

[matrix87]

> Do you know how many people die every year on the job, suffer disabilities that stop them from working? I dont think your average HN reader is going to be one of those people.

most people aren't one of those people because it wouldn't scale society wide

> is the most fucking entitled notion ever

free markets are good, unless workers leverage them to get what they want. then they're bad, obviously

[kingkongjaffa]

You’re on a message board paid for by venture capitalists, it’s safe to assume most people here prioritise compensation at least more than average.

[giantg2]

Well I guess I just suck at life.

I assume even highly paid people eventually want a "better" job. Something like fewer hours, a more interesting problem, a worthwhile mission, coworkers/ bosses that aren't jerks, etc. I see the posts on here all the time.

[caprock]

I generally agree with the tactics suggested here by zer0.

Make your manager aware, so they start paying closer attention, but be wary of asking them to act for you as you don't know what they might do to make things worse. They don't sound like a good manager in terms of managing social cohesion.

Then, start experimenting with tactics to interrupt these problem folks and get them back on track to clearer, group oriented communication. What often happens in these scenarios is many people are quietly tired of it just like you. If you gently and politely push back, you'll soon find the other voices come alive to help and join in. It might take a few weeks.

Also, I don't think I'd take the risk of running into similar problem people at a new job for a guaranteed pay decrease.

[muffinman26]

If you switch careers, of course you're going to take a pay cut. Why would I expect to be making as much money as an apprentice plumber as I am as a software developer with years of experience?

There are plenty of jobs that are important to certain career paths but come with a pay cut. For software developers, it might be starting a business. Would you expect a politician to turn down a position as Secretary of [State, Treasury, etc.] because it's a pay cut?

There's more to life than money and if I have to spend the rest of my life working at a desk, that isn't a life at all.