[jkaplowitz]

HTTPS is not enough for public WiFi. Domain names get leaked due to how the TLS negotiation works, and unencrypted HTTP sites or ones with weak crypto are still more common than they should be.

Plus, many public WiFi networks exist which block SSH or specific websites to keep security auditors happy while allowing VPN to make business people happy. I used such a public WiFi quite recently, which blocked not only SSH but Hacker News - I assume some bad site database misunderstands the name of this site.

As for hiding from governments, I’m not aware of any Western government that has so far gained the power to force its companies to affirmatively lie about whether they have shared logs with the government. So far, they can sometimes force silence, and can sometimes force a previously published canary notice not to be removed, but they haven’t yet had any right confirmed to uphold a compelled lie. So any Western provider that continues to publish suitably broadly worded canary notices on a verifiably still-updated basis (e.g. securely OpenPGP-signed together with a bit of new daily news headlines) is either telling the truth or is lying without being legally forced to do so.

[sigmoid10]

>I’m not aware of any Western government that has so far gained the power to force its companies to affirmatively lie about whether they have shared logs with the government

Do you see the problem with this statement?

[jkaplowitz]

Depends on what things you think are likely to be true in secret or judicially determined in the future without an intervening legislative change. My impression of the law in most Western countries is that the courts would overturn any requirement to compel a company to affirmatively lie to the public through explicit speech of some kind, even in the national security context. Orders compelling silence or non-removal of past statements are a very different constitutional and human rights balance than compelled false speech.

[sigmoid10]

>My impression of the law in most Western countries

Apparently you still didn't get it, so let me spell it out: Your entire point hinges on your own impression that your government won't abuse its power. An impression that will always be heavily influenced by PR and propaganda, no matter where you live - and one that seems eerily off considering the fact how often surveillance programs and attempts at destroying what privacy we have left make it to the surface. This kind of blind trust in your superiors is the straightest way to a 1984-esque dystopia.

[jkaplowitz]

You’re assuming a lot of inaccurate things about my beliefs. I do not have blind trust in my government or other Western governments. In, fact, I expect them to actively abuse their power in myriad ways, many of which try to destroy privacy. I didn’t say otherwise; indeed, if I were to assume that the government would never try to compel affirmative lies, I would have never needed to discuss how the courts would react to such an attempt.

I don’t think it will be productive to continue this subthread if doing so would be as focused on clarifying misunderstandings as this exchange was, so do not be surprised if this ends up as my last reply in this subthread.