[lolinder]

I don't know one way or the other how easy it is, but if I were an activist in an oppressive regime I wouldn't want to use a VPN that is connected to my identity in any way. I wouldn't trust zero-log policies to keep me safe, there are too many unknowns about the way they run these services and what metadata they have to turn over.

[peanut-walrus]

In this case an activist in the oppressive regime of...Spain?!

Opsec is hard and most activists in western countries don't take it seriously. It's not like we live in PRC or DPRK right?

Ironically, it is likely far harder for PRC or DPRK to get data from Proton than it is for Spanish police.

[TaylorAlexander]

> It's not like we live in PRC or DPRK right?

Right. Western governments are much, much better at mass covert surveillance.

> it is likely far harder for PRC or DPRK to get data from Proton than it is for Spanish police

You balk at the idea of a western government being oppressive while pointing out that our “secure” email services can be easily compromised by government action.

[alexey-salmin]

Well Spain probably never got over the Franco legacy.

https://www.wired.com/story/europe-break-encryption-leaked-d...

“Ideally, in our view, it would be desirable to legislatively prevent EU-based service providers from implementing end-to-end encryption,” Spanish representatives said in the document.

[spookie]

Spain had to deal with homegrown terrorism not that long ago. Not excusing them, but it should be pointed out for more context.

[godelski]

> but if I were an activist in an oppressive regime

Then mail them your money

I think most people are considering less serious threat models

[Repulsion9513]

I assume by "less serious threat models" you mean non-governmental, in which case just signing up for ProtonMail without a VPN is perfectly safe.

[godelski]

> you mean non-governmental

I would say most people are concerned with dragnets, not targeted attacks. There's quite a lot you can hide from the government in terms of dragnets, in the same way you'd hide from big tech.

"Hide" isn't the right word. "Defend from" I think is probably better. Defending our constitutional rights from government and defending our privacy from big tech.

I'm actually perfectly okay with governments in targeted attacks (where a warrant is reasonably given). I'm just not okay with police being lazy.

[Repulsion9513]

How does mailing them your money help against a dragnet? How does a VPN help against a dragnet? Like the government can spy on (and somehow SSL MITM) your home ISP but not spy on your VPN ISP?

[chefkd]

How could one go off grid without going off grid do you think? Cash, bitcoin, prepaid cards, VPNs they all seem traceable if truly needed

[Ferret7446]

Speaking absolutely, you can't. Reality is public. You have to choose your risk tolerance level.