[mynameisnoone]

Apartheid South Africa also tried to ban news media. It's a sign of extreme desperation and signals political vulnerability. Hopefully, Israel will get elections soon, and center- or left-leaning coalition government will pursue different foreign and military policies that a significant majority of Israelis prefer over the absurdity of the militarists and militant settlers.

https://truthout.org/articles/media-and-the-end-of-apartheid...

EDIT: Haaretz is a good and honest news source that has been extremely critical of the current leadership. Also recommended documentary film: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gatekeepers_(film)

[flanked-evergl]

Nearly every democratic country has previously or is currently censoring the media in some ways, including the US[1] and EU[2]. Single factor analysis is one of the worst kinds of analysis. If we only consider this one factor, then there is basically no country that is not like Apartheid South Africa. Apartheid South Africa was not exceptional or notable because it did what nearly every other country has or is currently still doing, i.e. censoring media. It was notable because people of specific races had fewer legal rights than others.

Furthermore, as far as I'm aware, the majority of Israelis want the IDF to go into Raffah[3] and are not opposed to the attemts to eliminate Hamas.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_of_Censorship

[2]: https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-rt-sputnik-eu-access-bans-pro...

[3]: https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/poll-75-of-jewi...

[dunekid]

I am not sure how many people were surveyed and what were the questions in these. I am reminded of this from Yes, Prime Minister https://youtu.be/ahgjEjJkZks?si=_6nlxJ1okysqH07U

[flanked-evergl]

A better way to engage than to allude to some TV series is to rather look for and present any information that suggests this is not the case, that suggests that there is in fact wide spread opposition to the war in Gaza and widespread support for an independent Palestinian state.

Before the October 7, only 35% of Israelis (41% Arab and 32% Jewish) thought a way can be found for Israel and an independent Palestinian state to coexist peacefully with each other [1]. We have to engage with reality here, not with TV tropes.

[1]: https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2023/09/26/israelis-...

[dunekid]

I thought alluding to this part in Yes, Prime Minister is going to get across the idea of questionable trustworthiness of surveys. I did try to get the survey details from the given page though, but for some reason the survey page is not loading for me.

Although the protests in Capital against the regime and ministers are pretty revealing . This is a month old link and things might have changed, for the better or worse.

About peace though, it can only prevail with disarmament and talks. And reconciliation. I think we have too many actors, powerful actors, who doesn't want it. Yitzhak Rabin didn't die in his sleep, for one.

[flanked-evergl]

The problem with protests is, it's not public opinion. So I don't know what you think it reveals. Poll after poll indicates that there is no appetite in Israel for accepting Hamas's terms, widespread support for military action against Hamas, and widespread opposition to a Palestinian state [1].

Alluding to a TV series is in no way indicative of the accuracy of opinion polls. Yes, Prime Minister is fictional. Israel is not fictional, the war is not fictional, the 1000s of people dead are not fictional, the 1000s of destroyed lives and trillions in destroyed capital is not fictional. Nothing about a fictional TV series is relevant here.

In reality, the Israelis are way more fed up with Gaza than it was 10 years ago and the support for a Palestinian state and peace with Hamas is not going to win anyone elections in Israel. You don't have to like it, but if you think getting rid of Netanyahu is going to change that, you are wrong. What might change is the government policy regarding settlements in the west bank, but it won't stop the war. The most likely person to replace Netanyahu, Benny Gantz, is more eager to enter Rafah than Netanyahu.

[1]: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/menasource/israel-gaza...

[jowea]

I think we should still take notice that polls can be manipulated and we have to be careful with the wording. Also people are prone to agreeing to good sounding abstract things but then disagreeing and voting or acting in another way when it comes down to it.

[flanked-evergl]

As far as I can tell, the evidence that getting rid of Netanyahu will drastically ramp down of Israeli military policy just does not exist. The only way to support that view is to ignore all the evidence that is available. People may not like Netanyahu, but they don't dislike him because he is fighting Hamas, and they don't dislike them because he is not agreeing to a Palestinian state.

[harimau777]

I think that most people would argue that past censorship by the US was a violation of democratic principles.

[flanked-evergl]

Maybe I'm not looking in the right places, but I don't see widespread condemnation for current EU and US censorship of the Russian propaganda outlet RT, and to be quite frank, I think it should be censored. The right to free speech does not extend to people who are not subject to a countries laws, and I don't see why it should.

I'm not condoning all past actions of the US or EU, but censoring fake news and propaganda that is controlled by groups or nations that want to destroy you seems like something that is reasonable to do.