[a3d6g2f7]

What is the product? Is it the hardware? Or the software? Are you saying they are one product, not two?

We've been through this countless times. Microsoft and the OEM's. Apple and their locked down hardware. Consumers are not fools. They know the difference between a software company and a hardware company.

Does your packaged food come with silverware?

Do your finished songs come with an mp3 player?

Does your premade clothing come with laundry detergent?

I find these type of comparsions (e.g. of computers and software to food, music, clothing) very strange. We are talking about cheap, programmable consumer electronics. And then we are having an argument over whether the consumer should have the ability to program them. It is absurd.

[dpark]

Should Honda be obliged to support installing custom engine control software? Overwriting the radio firmware? Reprogramming the odometer?

Should GE obligated to support installing new firmware on your dishwasher?

There's a long history of integrated devices. It may be the case that consumers know the difference between hardware and software. It's also the case, though, that they often do not care, and don't want to see with the difference.

[jodrellblank]

What is the product? Is it the hardware? Or the software? Are you saying they are one product, not two?

Yes I'm saying they are one product not two. They are made as one product, advertised as one product, sold as one thing for one price, supported as one product. Where do you get the idea that they could reasonably be thought of as two products?

We are talking about cheap, programmable consumer electronics. And then we are having an argument over whether the consumer should have the ability to program them. It is absurd.

No we aren't. We are talking about dozens of components, both software and hardware, put together into one product which is not sold as "programmable electronics" anymore than a dishwasher is sold as "reconfigurable matter". It's a nonsense idea that you want to be the case but you haven't justified why it "should" be the case at all.