[racional]

There were mitigating factors, to be sure. But it sounds like, to a first-order approximation, we agree: the land was taken by force.

I'm not trying to flatten history - just to get to the basic point. The other aspects that you're bringing up (Arab aims during 1947-1949; which side has been more intransigent since, etc) touch on narratives that are hotly contested as you know, but in any case are even further from the original topic of this thread (which had something do with Microsoft and Minecraft, apparently).

So if you like we can keep our powder dry in regard to those, and concentrate on hopes for some form of de-escalation and a cessation of massive bloodletting in the current moment.

And of course of further attempts at encroachment upon anyone else's land.

[edanm]

Edit: I removed language that, on reflection (after it being pointed out by my co-partner in this discussion), I shouldn't have used.

> There were mitigating factors, to be sure. But it sounds like, to a first-order approximation, we agree: the land was taken by force.

While it might be a "true fact", it's gaslighting to suggest that despite Jews agreeing to a non-violent plan, despite Israel being attacked with the probable intent of wiping it out completely, despite all that, it's ok to characterize the land capture to help protect itself in this defensive war as "land taken by force". That's just not how most people would use that phrase.

> So if you like we can keep our powder dry in regard to those, and concentrate on hopes for some form of de-escalation and a cessation of massive bloodletting in the current moment.

This I can agree with wholeheartedly. I have no idea what is best for the future (I don't see any peace being achieved with Hamas in place, frankly) but the current situation is awful and has to change.

[racional]

I punch you, and you punch me back ...

That's not my vibe, man. And I think I'd prefer not to pursue this line of discussion any further.

[edanm]

I apologize, I wasn't trying to be offensive or hurtful, I was just reaching for an example and phrased it poorly and thoughtlessly.

(I'll also edit my comment.)

> And I think I'd prefer not to pursue this line of discussion any further.

Fair enough.

For the record, from what I've read of your comments so far, I think we mostly agree about things, apologies that I let the topic make me talk in a way that is inappropriate. (I also like your username for the record)

[racional]

Apology accepted, and I appreciate the thoughtful clarification.

I'd pick up on the other topic (the Nation-State law, etc), but apparently there's a very insecure person out there right now who is vindictively flagging nearly all of my recent posts -- including the one just above your, just now.

Okay, it seems in one post I was quick to misread someone, so I can see an issue there. But definitely not in all of them).

[edanm]

> but apparently there's a very insecure person out there right now who is vindictively flagging nearly all of my recent posts -- including the one just above your, just now.

I'm sorry that that's happening to you, looking at your comment history it doesn't seem right. I'll try to do what I can to stop this, though it might be worth reaching out to dang and ask him to look at this.