[twojacobtwo]

Show me the data with the average and median of all car purchases, not just new, and I'll show you that $800/mo is far from 'nothing'. Hell, my first 3 cars were under $4,000, with each lasting 5 years or better and I damnwell didn't spend anywhere close to enough on fuel and maintenance to bring my costs to even half that number. Maybe I'm an outlier, but in my bubble of poor folks, I'm certainly not.

[jrmg]

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/average-...

The average monthly car payment is $738 for new cars and $532 for used. Several factors determine your payment.

The data source is Experian, so I give it some credence.

If you think it’s high, consider that all the low payments you know of need an ‘equivalently’ high payment to balance out the average. People spend huge amounts of money on cars.

[ceejayoz]

Most people do not make a car payment every month of their lives. They’re usually 3-5 year loans.

The average amount of a car payment and the average amount an American pays in car payments in an average month are vastly different stats.

Contrived example: I buy a $20k car. $500/month payments, 0% interest for simplicity of the math. I keep it for 20 years.

It cost me $83/month on average to purchase. My car payment was $500.

[nradov]

Loan terms have gotten longer. The average new car loan is now 68 months, and many go up to 84 months.

https://www.nerdwallet.com/article/loans/auto-loans/average-...

That might not be wise from a personal finance standpoint but buyers seem to prefer longer loans now.

[dangus]

On the one hand, I get what you’re saying and logically it makes sense. On the other hand, you’re seriously downplaying the increasing lack of affordability of modern vehicles.

What $20k car are you talking about exactly?

A new Toyota Camry base model costs nearly $30k.

And that is basically the most sensible no-frills vehicle you can buy.

In my area a $20,000 example of a Camry already has 80,000 miles on it and is a full 5 years old.

You are not keeping a $20k car for 20 years for a total lifespan of 25 years. That isn’t realistic at all.

[ceejayoz]

A new Corolla’s MSRP is $23k, and not every car payment is for a brand new car.

It’s a far more realistic example than the pricey BMW SUVs people are linking with five-year cost summaries here.

The point is “average monthly car payment” and “average money spent per month purchasing cars” aren’t the same stats, just like the cost of a heart transplant doesn’t translate to how much I pay this month for one.

[dangus]

How does a family with three kids fit into a Corolla?

If we just dive down the rabbit hole of cheaper economy cars all we are saying is that the standard of living is declining when we compare to the past.

A 1987 Dodge Caravan cost between $25k and $38k in today's money. You can't even get a base model Chrysler Pacifica for that much.

I agree on the fact that most people are buying used cars...but used car prices are based on the benchmark of new car prices, and they're higher APR loans as well. So really both categories are getting less and less affordable.

[ceejayoz]

> How does a family with three kids fit into a Corolla?

By getting in? It has five seats, just like the Camry. It's ~2" narrower.

[twojacobtwo]

I would bet that those numbers don't include a large number of private/p2p sales and cash sales, given that they're from a credit agency. Perhaps I'm wrong, but based on the number of sub-$3000 cash sales I've seen in my extended circle of acquaintances over my lifetime, I'm pretty sure there's a large chunk missing from the data.

But even then, assuming they somehow capture every resale of every vehicle, most people who can barely afford a car are not buying another car as soon as their payments end. Many, such as myself, drive a car until it dies. We tend to also learn a good deal about vehicle mechanics/maintenance to keep it going 'on the cheap' until either the engine or the transmission fails catastrophically and it becomes cheaper to get another used vehicle.