[bbrake]

Moving things to india sounds like a great idea, except the 13-15 hour difference in communication. it's all well and good until you're in Cupertino and taking an 11:30 pm call because they have 0 hours of overlap... guess you can force them to work US hours, but that goes to culture as well.

Are they trying to show that India's workplace is more compliant and they'll just do what corp types will tell them?

[pabloivan57]

I worked at Amazon for almost 10 years and I hate, repeat hate working with India teams. Their quality is subpar, period. No other way to put it

[chimp_brain]

Racist much? I work out of Europe and manage teams both in India and Europe. My experience have pleasantly gotten better with Indian teams. If the quality is sub-par then perhaps you're not a good manager? perhaps failing upwards?

[rbanffy]

There are cultural factors you need to overcome, and it's with every international team. I am not going to simplify this, because it's a multi-faceted thing, but focusing on a single thing, for instance, propagation of bad news, India is an intensely competitive market and I need to make it abundantly clear I want to hear the bad news as soon as possible, and that I don't care about blame, as long as we learn from mistakes. From the US, I often get bad news sandwiched between good ones, so I need to redouble attention.

This is a huge topic.

[mm007emko]

I am from Europe and I have worked with many Europeans, Americans and Asians. Quality of sub-contractor colleagues from India was, same as from anywhere else, directly proportional to what the company paid for them. Good pay = skilled and hard-working. Cheap labour = barely any skills and hardly working.

[zrn900]

Nah. Its probably a case of 'you get what you pay for'. They pay for cheap teams, and those teams give them what they pay for. Good talent is expensive in all countries - even if it is relatively cheaper in India compared to SF. The MBAs don't even want to pay that much. They want dirt cheap.

[KingOfCoders]

India is just like every other country. Ive worked with very bad developers in India, unbearable, and I've worked with excellent developers that I would hire again in an instant.

[vbansal86]

quality is at par with price you pay

[dcrow0]

offshoring isn't limited to India. devs in Canada, Europe, and South America are superb and cheap

[oaiey]

We are inexpensive but not cheap ;)

[rickshab]

I have similar experience but with Americans. They knew very superficially about the business and completely dependent on our Indian team to get them out of their troubles. Troubles caused by again not knowing and just trusting another team (donno where they were from) to handle their issues. This isn't a one off case either. So get off your high horse. Both countries have qualified and unqualified people in tech and other fields. Just calling yourself the greatest country in the world doesn't change the fact that all of US depends on immigration

[otteromkram]

I gotta agree with the parent comment about teams in india. No high horses required.

Just seemed like a bunch of Bootcamp grads not caring about work and quality. There were, of course, some competent workers there, but most seemed to have gotten hired through favoritism, not competency.

India seems to have this reputation that the entire population is made up of tech geniuses, but they have a similar ratio of idiots as anywhere else.

[htrp]

The geniuses came to the USA and became people like Satya Nadella

[Rmk11]

US college grads cant get jobs at Google. Google uses a staffing agency called "Cognizant" that is based 100% in India. $15/hr Cognizant workers recently asked for minimum wage & benefits in CA & Google announced they will not pay workers minimum wage or benefits IN THE US.

Google replaced long-term workers with these contractors to evade labor laws. There are over 275k workers on H1 visas in Santa Clara county alone. Those contracts end & Google replaces them with lower paid positions doing the same work. This is why Google's products don't work as well & also why it can no longer compete or innovate. Google's terrible AI is not the reason for these layoffs. Google's mass layoff have a chilling effect on workers. The message is that if they make any waves or stand up for their rights, they will be replaced. The goal is not to innovate. The goal is to cut costs while minimally maintaining products the entire world is forced to use. Since users have no options, they dont need good products.

I am sure workers try as hard as they can due to the massive power imbalance of having your citizenship status tied to your job. Tech has literally replaced the population of an entire region with H1 visas for one reason only, to cut costs. After starting a severe homeless crisis & destroying a state, Google is now moving to the cheap labor in India & Mexico. This is called transnationalism & US corporations have been doing since the 70s. It might seem like this could be good for India, but Google has no interest in bringing India up. Google only wants to make sure it always has a cheap, desperate pool of labor to exploit. This is the real reason for Googles constant layoffs. Google has been breaking US antitrust & tax laws for years. Its now blatantly breaking US labor laws & neither CA or the US govt cares. The US seems to be more interested in protecting the worst monopoly in history. The only reason Google makes money is by selling user data to anyone & with predatory ads. I am certain US enemies are very aware of the huge data breach thats likely to happen through the sketchy staffing agencies Google uses & the sheer number of unvetted temporary employees that revolve in and out of Googles doors.

[twojobsoneboss]

In this tech job environment the US google employee is willing to do as many 11:30 nights as needed to keep his high paying tech job, and management knows it

[ToxicMegacolon]

Management is dumb if they think that. You can't announce year long continuous layoffs, and expect people to work hard. What will the hard working employees get in return if they get laid off? Most US Google Employees are smart people, they should know that now is the time to prepare to get off that tech island, and quiet quitting is the way.

[twojobsoneboss]

RTO has been instituted and there not much you can do to prepare for a whole career change when in the office…

And esp for those with families they might be dependent on big tech comp to support their family in high CoL areas, else have to move their kids and school or make big lifestyle downgrades

Management holds the cards and they know it. Lesson for workers is to live way below your means while you still can

[ToxicMegacolon]

Last I checked google was in hybrid mode. That is 3 days a week in office max. Also, Last I checked a week was 7 days. Lastly, its not whole career change. Switching from Google to Netflix as a software engineer is not a career change.

I disagree that management holds the cards. Jobs are being threatened whether you work hard or not. You can double your productivity and still be cut in the next round of layoffs (and suffer burnout, stress, depression etc). In such a situation, it makes sense to quiet quit and prepare yourself for the time when you do get cut. Besides savings, the lesson here is to prioritize self over a job every day. In fact, if management did held the cards, they'd make the move that increases productivity and morale, not alienates the entire workforce.

Also I think those with families should be extra motivated to interview elsewhere in the current climate. They should be more scared of getting laid off and ending up jobless than having to move to another city with a new job.

[htrp]

> That is 3 days a week in office max. Also, Last I checked a week was 7 days.

Apparently weekends don't exist for you?

[ToxicMegacolon]

You go to office on weekends?

[dcrow0]

if you don't perform, then you get PIP'ed if you don't get PIP'ed, you'll get laid off

[ToxicMegacolon]

You will get laid off whether you perform or not is the general rule right now. Thus I feel the best move for employees is to prioritize and prepare for what comes after lay offs.

[unixhero]

Great idea for who? Not for paying customers.

[noobermin]

Who else, shareholders and executive compensation

[unixhero]

Ah yes of course, the short term needful.

[lotsofpulp]

There are quite a few defined benefit pension funds and 401k/IRAs that depend on the publicly listed businesses’s continuous long term price increases to meet people’s goals of being able to use their “assets” to buy the quality of life they want in retirement.

Certainly does not seem like the “short term” needful to me. US tech stocks are basically carrying a large portion of politically active US voters past the finish line.